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Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action

Let's call a spade a spade. There are enough people on here that know that Dave did what he did and in private you have acknowledged to them that he did it. They in turn have also confirmed to others that he did it. In other words all this 'false and maliscious allegations' malarkey is totally played out. So do yourself a favour and just give all this holier than thou shit a fucking rest.

More lies....you just cant stop. Do yourself a favour and tell me if you are accused of doing something very serious by a friend, colleague or comrade does that makes you guilty. Think about it.... youve got no room to talk matey. Not even a little wriggle.
 
Dave was a good mate of mine and Louise has become a good friend as well, no real mystery there, I wont ask her because she is still grieving for her dead partner and the father of her children and I wont add to her suffering, you have chosen to raise it on a public forum and therefore I feel entitled to ask you to explain something that you claim to have happened and which I feel doesn't add up for the reasons that I put out in the post that you quoted.

Well if you're not willing to believe us and are not prepared to ask Louise, why don't you ask Bignose about it, who actually confirms it in his post above.

Even better look at posts 3191 through 3270 of this thread, where he justifies the reasons for supplying the names of the authors to Carter Ruck (while simultaneously admitting and denying that he did so)
 
The BtF book was bound to repeat false allegations against Dave and Louise wanted to protect her children and Daves reputation as an honest and valued anti fascist. Its simple really. Tell fibs and you may have to face some sort of action...as Oxford LP should know only too well. CR for my tuppence worth couldnt give a fuck about the book not coming out it just wanted to stop untrue and malicious allegations.

All the bullshit about it being a Searchlight inspired spoiler is laughable.

Events suggest otherwise. While CR carried out a sustained 6 month campaign of legal intimidation against the publishers while the book was in the publication process (which ironically in turn prompted a reexamination and an actual expansion of the passages describing the episode in the book), when the book was actually published, complete with these alleged 'false allegations' and 'lies', CR suddenly backed down, melted away, and all the bluster & bravado of the previous 6 months about the severe consequences of going ahead with publication disappeared. That says a number of things to me:-

1) There was no real legal case against any part of the book in the first place

2) Despite (1) above, the aim was to get the publishers to cave in and pull out of publishing it through the legal pressure being put on them

3) If the real underlying issue really had been a concern about what was said about Hann in the book (and a concern about it being made public through publication), why then once the book was actually published did the legal threats suddenly stop? If it was such a black and white case of untruths & lies in the book, then surely once the book was actually published that would be the best time to proceed with more legal action. Instead we saw the reverse, it all melted away (or more correctly in changed tack and came from a different angle/vehicle in the shape of David Hoffman). Which suggests to me that things were not quite as they were made out to be on the surface. The interventions from CR seemed to be more about stopping the book from being published full stop, then when that failed they didn't seem to give a fuck about what was in it once it actually was published. For such a sustained legal pressure warning of what would happen if it was published to melt away immediately once it was published surely doesn't even smell right to you, no?
 
Events suggest otherwise. While CR carried out a sustained 6 month campaign of legal intimidation against the publishers while the book was in the publication process (which ironically in turn prompted a reexamination and an actual expansion of the passages describing the episode in the book), when the book was actually published, complete with these alleged 'false allegations' and 'lies', CR suddenly backed down, melted away, and all the bluster & bravado of the previous 6 months about the severe consequences of going ahead with publication disappeared. That says a number of things to me:-

1) There was no real legal case against any part of the book in the first place

2) Despite (1) above, the aim was to get the publishers to cave in and pull out of publishing it through the legal pressure being put on them

3) If the real underlying issue really had been a concern about what was said about Hann in the book (and a concern about it being made public through publication), why then once the book was actually published did the legal threats suddenly stop? If it was such a black and white case of untruths & lies in the book, then surely once the book was actually published that would be the best time to proceed with more legal action. Instead we saw the reverse, it all melted away (or more correctly in changed tack and came from a different angle/vehicle in the shape of David Hoffman). Which suggests to me that things were not quite as they were made out to be on the surface. The interventions from CR seemed to be more about stopping the book from being published full stop, then when that failed they didn't seem to give a fuck about what was in it once it actually was published. For such a sustained legal pressure warning of what would happen if it was published to melt away immediately once it was published surely doesn't even smell right to you, no?

Please do me a favour......there is no link between Searchlight/Hoffman and LP's quest to stop smears and lies. And you know it. It could be money/stress/intimidation/harassment whatever or a mixture of those reasons but this ultimately is about big ego's and destructive and malicious bullying by incessant repetitive and constant lies by a group of people who ultimately drove militant anti fascism into the ground and by de-politicising a key opponent to this being a tried and tested tactic (cue show trials)

By stitching up Dave you have tried to deflect the shame and approbation that should be visited on you. A shameful episode that hopefully people have seen through. Your project has clearly not worked but its not only due to the dodgy anti socialist appeal of the IWCM but clearly also about the individuals behind it.
 
Well if you're not willing to believe us and are not prepared to ask Louise, why don't you ask Bignose about it, who actually confirms it in his post above.

Even better look at posts 3191 through 3270 of this thread, where he justifies the reasons for supplying the names of the authors to Carter Ruck (while simultaneously admitting and denying that he did so)
I thought you wouldn't be able to answer.
 
Dave was a good mate of mine and Louise has become a good friend as well, no real mystery there, I wont ask her because she is still grieving for her dead partner and the father of her children and I wont add to her suffering, you have chosen to raise it on a public forum and therefore I feel entitled to ask you to explain something that you claim to have happened and which I feel doesn't add up for the reasons that I put out in the post that you quoted.



I find this type of statement to be quite objectionable frankly, because it is not based on any political analysis or any notion of organisational responsibility. It's based on 'friendship' and emotion, not politics and comradeship. Many others were comrades and friends of Dave's too (and your comrades too) and can still see the truth through the rose-tinted mist.

I don't think that there was anyone in Manchester closer to Dave than G, so how come he is unable to defend Dave?

Is he a liar too, as is implied with all others who promote or accept the Red Action narrative?

How come he feels no responsibility to protect either Dave's memory or Louise's grief, but you do?

I don't know if it's a case of people who weren't consulted about BTF feeling that they should have been and biting back at it, but the driving force of the BTF narrative came from London and the main organisers around the country, as it had to imho. It was necessary to provide a definitive history and political explanation of AFA, where it had come from and how its basic tenet of 'ideological and physical confrontation' rolled out in a number of areas. It would have been impossible to write a book like that based on the narrative of every single member of AFA, it couldn't even have been written based on extensive interviews with the membership of Red Action, because it wasn't that type of book. It was not 'hoolie porn' (the category that perhaps best describes No Retreat) nor was it 'oral history' (as Physical Resistance appears to be). It was the explanation of the political modus operandi of the leadership of AFA, with use of anecdotal evidence to demonstrate the effectiveness of that M.O.

I believe that Beating The Fascists is an invaluable contribution to the history of the anti-fascist struggle. Imho it is a definitive explanation of the politics of AFA. The same cannot be said for No Retreat, it is inaccurate in a whole number of areas and, if anything, its authors consulted with a smaller milieu than did BTF, which saw the virtual reformation of the RA National Council to ratify early drafts in the run-up to publication. I've pointed out a number of errors in NR that only relate to Scotland, others here have far greater beefs than I have with NR.

Physical Resistance is a far better book than NR and - had it not been for the previous book and his denials of the circumstances around his departure from AFA and RA - Dave Hann might have left this world a happier man and been better thought of by all with this book. It might have served as fitting contrition for past errors, but the damage caused by NR, the issues around his expulsion from RA and AFA, and the attempts to block publication of BTF, have all left a sour taste.

There is also, of course, Louise Purbrick's personal contribution as Dave's editor, co-writer and wife/lover. The added emotion and melodrama from her has served no politically productive purpose imho and has sought to further divide people based on emotional blackmail and false perceptions of loyalty.

That her role in threatening legal action against the publishers of Beating The Fascists is now either obscured, dismissed or re-spun here by her supporters and put down to 'grief' is interesting. Is she the driving force or the 'patsy'? There is little in her behaviour which suggests that she is not a willing participant. Whatever her motives, emotional or political, there is no justification for the legal threats and 6 month hounding of the publishers of BTF by Carter-Fuck, who acted on Louise's instruction.
 
And I find you accusing me of putting friendship before also objectionable, I have no intention of going back over all that again, if you don't already know what I had to say on it then I suggest that you reread the thread.
 
I based my post on what you said mate, it is directly quoted,

Dave wasn't that big a mate of yours, especially after you got nicked and you know why... G and Dave moaned like fcuk about that, as did others in RA. Glasgow was the only branch of RA to financially support you while you were in the nick, ever wondered why?
 
Here's the main points again though, which you didn't answer.

I don't think that there was anyone in Manchester closer to Dave than G, so how come he is unable to defend Dave?

Is he a liar too, as is implied with all others who promote or accept the Red Action narrative?

How come he feels no responsibility to protect either Dave's memory or Louise's grief, but you do?
 
Here's the main points again though, which you didn't answer.

I don't think that there was anyone in Manchester closer to Dave than G, so how come he is unable to defend Dave?

Is he a liar too, as is implied with all others who promote or accept the Red Action narrative?

How come he feels no responsibility to protect either Dave's memory or Louise's grief, but you do?
I have addressed all those questions numerous times in this thread already and have no intention of doing so again, I suggest again that you reread the thread.
Dave was a comrade as well as friend, but you already knew that, and as it goes was well entitled to feel pissed off with me, shit happens and feelings ease off, we were good friends again when he died and I know that he had no hard feelings, fuck knows why G felt aggrieved?
But anyway, maybe you could answer the question below for me?

I know next to nothing about the law or suing people but I was under the impression that you could not sue on behalf of a dead person? Particularly one who not only already had a criminal record for football hooliganism, but had co-authored a book describing his involvement, participating and organising some extremely violent affairs, so I find it even stranger that any solicitors would threaten to sue on his behalf in such circumstances?
 
Here's the main points again though, which you didn't answer.

I don't think that there was anyone in Manchester closer to Dave than G, so how come he is unable to defend Dave?

Is he a liar too, as is implied with all others who promote or accept the Red Action narrative?

How come he feels no responsibility to protect either Dave's memory or Louise's grief, but you do?

Porky was off his face most of the time on whacky baccy while he was in Hulme and was infact a small time dealer. He was also one of the most unreliable people who missed many an op because he was either wasted or couldnt be arsed. I think the sally really missed him when he fucked off. Dont hold him up as some paragon of anti-fascist resistance.

He was a mate of mine too at one time but when he tried to read me the riot act on one occasion I thought fuck you and that was after I gave him a place to stay. He came back from India a fucking mess. Again another sycophant of the local RA criminal associate who conducted far more serious crimes than DH's alleged misdemeanours. Also ask Porky what are his views on Demus bullying of his little brother when he got him on the shovel. Theres another one to consider when you talk about how people really operate. Ive had enough of the bullshit and double standards from your lot. as far as NR is concerned of course I dont give a flying fuck what you and your pals think. Its out there and its in 3 languages. What Porky feels is of little significance.
 
I know next to nothing about the law or suing people but I was under the impression that you could not sue on behalf of a dead person? Particularly one who not only already had a criminal record for football hooliganism, but had co-authored a book describing his involvement, participating and organising some extremely violent affairs, so I find it even stranger that any solicitors would threaten to sue on his behalf in such circumstances?

I think this point was already answered by LD a page ago. Dave Hann was not threatening to sue anyone. Dave Hann was dead.

His partner/lover/co-author/editor/widow Louise Purbrick was threatening by means of legal letters, written on her behalf by the notorious libel experts Carter-Ruck, to sue on behalf of Dave Hann's estate, i.e. she was threatening legal action on behalf of a deceased person that you quite rightly point out had no reputation to defend. It is the use of the word 'estate' that is key here, because it has nothing to do with Dave directly and everything to do with Louise and her sensibilities. She apparently believes herself and her children to be the living embodiment of Dave and, therefore, as much open to hurt and libel should his name be taken in vain as Dave might be himself were he still alive. The 'previous offences' defence does not wash, because it is not relevant to the legal action that Louise was threatening.

Are you now questioning the veracity of the claim that Louise Purbrick employed the services of Carter-Ruck to explore and advise her on the various legal methods by which Freedom Press and others could be pursued and harassed?

The implication of what you are now saying is that the threat of legal action by Louise via Carter-Ruck did not exist.

By my reckoning, that makes everyone a liar except Louise and Big Nose1... :facepalm:
 
Porky was off his face most of the time on whacky baccy while he was in Hulme and was infact a small time dealer. He was also one of the most unreliable people who missed many an op because he was either wasted or couldnt be arsed. I think the sally really missed him when he fucked off. Dont hold him up as some paragon of anti-fascist resistance.

He was a mate of mine too at one time but when he tried to read me the riot act on one occasion I thought fuck you and that was after I gave him a place to stay. He came back from India a fucking mess. Again another sycophant of the local RA criminal associate who conducted far more serious crimes than DH's alleged misdemeanours. Also ask Porky what are his views on Demus bullying of his little brother when he got him on the shovel. Theres another one to consider when you talk about how people really operate. Ive had enough of the bullshit and double standards from your lot. as far as NR is concerned of course I dont give a flying fuck what you and your pals think. Its out there and its in 3 languages. What Porky feels is of little significance.


I am still friendly with Porky's brother btw and he thoroughly enjoyed working with the man you refer to. I've never heard a bad word from him against D. Where do you get this stuff mate? I'm beginning to think you may have been at the hallucinogenic drugs yourself.

G is the sore point for you because regardless of his 'stoner' status at the time, he realised what Dave and Mark had been up to and sobered up quite pronto. Indeed it was to G that Dave turned in his hour of need. His honesty and integrity have never been in doubt. NEVER.
 
Depressing isn't the word.


I'd say illuminating...

Can you please clarify what exactly it is that you mean when you question the threat of legal action by Louise Purbrick on behalf of Dave Hann's 'estate'?

Are you saying that there was no threat of legal action and no letters on Louise's behalf from Carter-Ruck to Freedom threatening legal consequences should they go ahead and publish BTF?

Did you support her efforts to disrupt and delay the publishing of BTF?

Who paid the legal fees?

She's your friend, it's surely not an awkward question, so why not ask her?

Who paid for the services of Carter-Ruck?
 
If it were Searchlight who paid for Carter-Ruck's services, as I think you believe, what are the wider political consequences?
 
Is this the best you have? To smear some one for smoking cannabis?
You know its not about smoking cannabis or getting arseholed down the pub so fuck off. Its about reliability and double standards. Its also not a smear....thats when its a lie.
 
I am still friendly with Porky's brother btw and he thoroughly enjoyed working with the man you refer to. I've never heard a bad word from him against D. Where do you get this stuff mate? I'm beginning to think you may have been at the hallucinogenic drugs yourself.

G is the sore point for you because regardless of his 'stoner' status at the time, he realised what Dave and Mark had been up to and sobered up quite pronto. Indeed it was to G that Dave turned in his hour of need. His honesty and integrity have never been in doubt. NEVER.

Afraid his bros old boss did Stevie along with others...quite a name for it. This is a man who surrounded himself with bullies and unfortunately you have to accept that when you associate with those same people its going to rub off. He was a bully...ask him why he used to twat those two brothers for no reason in Hulme every time he saw them.....shameful. And ask him when I met him in 'his' pub after not seeing him in over 15 years+ his almost first words were..'''should see the crew weve got now''...what....at 50 years of age ffs. For your record I dont do drugs and as many know during my active street period in politics up to about 95/6 never drank. That said I was well placed to observe people who did.

I went off Porky with his anti English shite. Heres a man living in Manchester, shagging an English bird..studying /signing/working....in Manchester. But would come out with '' I'd support any team against England and that includes South Africa'' ( who were still shooting blacks then) and Israel...(who continue to shoot people) And he meant it. But the clincher came when he tried the hard man and tried to bollock me for some nonsense. This being after Id given his fat arse a place to live. Regards the dope smoking...no problem...not my way but if you saw him around the time he went to India it was truly shocking. How much damage was being done prior and how much judgement went out the window?

Ive had a rake of people slagging me for defending friends etc but you fellah have just done the same when you know there were issues to do with his reliability and if youre a good friend..and I'm sure you are still then you WILL know. Therefore what Porky has to say on the matter can not be sustained.

This doesnt say that in civilian life hes not a decent likeable lad. Politically however he was wrong to take me to task and do others dirty work..well out of his depth esp regards the subject matter and its consequences.

It goes to say if he hadn't got involved in the debate about Louise's intentions he wouldnt have got such a shit report off me.
 
Tell me to fuck off if you guys want. But can't all this be put behind youse now? Pretty depressing to read and it's all in the public domain.

Youre right Manny but these guys dont let up.....their harassment of an honest well intentioned principled woman and mother is one of the most disgraceful things Ive seen. A concerted hate campaign being run by a small band of malcontents with no influence anymore who have emabarked on this crusade because they have nothing else to offer
 
I thought you wouldn't be able to answer.

I'm not sure what more you expect me to do for you (short off posting up the series of letters sent by Carter Ruck which would then leave me open to legal action by them for contravening the non-disclosure conditions placed upon them)

I've never come across someone so dogmatically determined to avoid coming into some kind of orbit with the basic facts of the matter. I mean fair enough if you don't believe what has been said from 'our side', but to then push a line that the whole thing never happened at all, which is even in direct contradiction to both what Louise or Bignose will tell you (if you were willing to ask/listen which you've already shown that you're not) is frankly absurd.

You seem to have decided from the outset, a priori, that the thing didn't happen and that's that - nothing will change that and despite Louise supposedly being a friend, you are publicly contradicting her (and by implication calling her a liar as well) about a matter you weren't involved in, know nothing about and are determined to avoid knowing anything about lest it interfere with your predetermined opinion on what happened
 
Please do me a favour......there is no link between Searchlight/Hoffman and LP's quest to stop smears and lies. And you know it. It could be money/stress/intimidation/harassment whatever or a mixture of those reasons but this ultimately is about big ego's and destructive and malicious bullying by incessant repetitive and constant lies by a group of people who ultimately drove militant anti fascism into the ground and by de-politicising a key opponent to this being a tried and tested tactic (cue show trials)

By stitching up Dave you have tried to deflect the shame and approbation that should be visited on you. A shameful episode that hopefully people have seen through. Your project has clearly not worked but its not only due to the dodgy anti socialist appeal of the IWCM but clearly also about the individuals behind it.

A lot of froth & words there, not one of them actually addressing the post they replied to however

I'll try and boil it down even further for you into a single sentence question:-

If as you say, the book contains 'false allegations' and 'lies' which were so obviously untrue, and the real basis of CR's involvement was to protect Dave's estate and its honourable reputation, why did the 6 month long campaign of legal threats & intimidation during the pre-publication period vanish the moment the book was actually published?
 
A lot of froth & words there, not one of them actually addressing the post they replied to however

I'll try and boil it down even further for you into a single sentence question:-

If as you say, the book contains 'false allegations' and 'lies' which were so obviously untrue, and the real basis of CR's involvement was to protect Dave's estate and its honourable reputation, why did the 6 month long campaign of legal threats & intimidation during the pre-publication period vanish the moment the book was actually published?
Ask her....Ive said my bit
 
I went off Porky with his anti English shite. Heres a man living in Manchester, shagging an English bird..studying /signing/working....in Manchester. But would come out with '' I'd support any team against England and that includes South Africa'' ( who were still shooting blacks then) and Israel...(who continue to shoot people) And he meant it.

What? That's shocking. You mean just like Denis Law and Alex Ferguson then? Pat Crerand? You should call the Police.

Please direct me to somewhere you have publicly cunted off these three for their 'Anti-English"-ness.

This really is beyond parody and a shameless playing to the gallery - whilst simultaneously insulting the gallery with (frankly) BNP-type nonsense... "If they love Scotland/Ireland/Pakistan so much... why don't they fuck off back there..."

For real?

Big Nose. Catch yourself on. I have no idea why you do this. It does nothing at all for your position makes you sound ridiculous... as well as a bit of a nutter... and a complete High School bitch.
 
What? That's shocking. You mean just like Denis Law and Alex Ferguson then? Pat Crerand? You should call the Police.

Please direct me to somewhere you have publicly cunted off these three for their 'Anti-English"-ness.

This really is beyond parody and a shameless playing to the gallery - whilst simultaneously insulting the gallery with (frankly) BNP-type nonsense... "If they love Scotland/Ireland/Pakistan so much... why don't they fuck off back there..."

Really?

Big Nose. Catch yourself on. I have no idea why you do this. It does nothing at all for your position makes you sound ridiculous... as well as a complete High School bitch.

I'm English born ( not proud , not racist , not xenophobic ) I hate the institutions and so I dont support any national teams...certainly dont sing the national anthem but took the jubilee holidays thank you Lizzie. So is that really a problem. Im in BNP land here?....interesting but where was Gerry...in Mossad and AWB territory. Come on fellah thats cheap. My antecedents are mainly Irish but I dont do the plastic shit. And I dont accept pathetic statements like Porky made not because its anti English so much you should have got that bit Liam, but because he's supporting those regimes i mentioned. Its the type of annoying petty behaviour that when repeatedly wheeled out can begin to put you off people quite quickly and begs the question i asked. In effect a City..night club ..football team...or a bird that I detested so much i would think whether it really should be where Im living....going...watching or shagging.........thats just bizzare.

(Like the so called United 'fans' who scream and shout and swear and slag Giggs calling him a useless Welsh cunt and Rooney a fat scouse wanker then go to the Megastore and spend £200 on a strip and duvet cover....I say fuck off elsewhere)

ps Liam I wish sometimes you would just look a little deeper. A rather feeble ticking off on this one from you...so Ill go stand in the corridor til the bell
 
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