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Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action

I'm definately not a Reillyite plant. I've met him once in passing and I'd have a fair say he has no idea who I am? I know one member of this board in person and he may not even be aware who I am posting as. I know a few other RA lads well, in person and outside of here, however i'm here with no agenda (and right now to kill time on night shift). I think JR was trying to summerise/ clarify earlier points he's made and to be honest sounds as tired of going over certain points as you are big nose. Anyways I think i'm causing a derailment here so I'll say no more unless it's on topic..
 
To quote the Nick Lowles HnH article:

"HOPE not hate joined a community campaign which helped force the venue owner to withdraw the invitation. Success, so we thought. However, a few BNP supporters did turn up and were attacked by anti-fascists, one with a hammer. What began as a great success story turned into a PR disaster as images of the beaten man dominated local, regional and even national news for three days."

I think this neatly sums up the liberal view of militant anti-fascism. Assuming that everyone shares the same opinion of a particular news article, and also the reliance upon a mainstream media to put HnH's agenda out there for public consumption.

It's another reason why the ANL and other lefty groups despised AFA's confrontational and uncompromising stance. They didn't want images of "rough looking types" throwing BNP members out of council estates dominating press coverage. Instead they preferred set piece photos of middle class demonstrators holding posters and shaking hands with local politicians (who were usually the cause of the rise in sympathy for the BNP in the first place).

Lowles is talking out of his rear when he claims that the concept of 'No Platform' has changed. In fact he's more or less showing that the liberal view of physical force anti-fascism is still the same as it was 20 years ago.
 
intersol32 said:
It's another reason why the ANL and other lefty groups despised AFA's confrontational and uncompromising stance. They didn't want images of "rough looking types" throwing BNP members out of council estates dominating press coverage. Instead they preferred set piece photos of middle class demonstrators holding posters and shaking hands with local politicians (who were usually the cause of the rise in sympathy for the BNP in the first place).
Click to expand...

Leaving aside the very fact that ANL mk1, in my experience at least, did actually have, who you describe as "rough looking types" amongst its ranks, in this case throwing NF members out of pubs on some council estates, and beyond it should be said, you wander off into building some straw man characterture of your own making. This being your claim of a supposedly '"preferred" set-piece photo opp'. Now, you might want to claim other failings of, to be specific, ANL mk2, some I would most likely agree with you on, but as for this? Utter tosh.
 
audiotech said:
Leaving aside the very fact that ANL mk1, in my experience at least, did actually have, who you describe as "rough looking types" amongst its ranks, in this case throwing NF members out of pubs on some council estates, and beyond it should be said, you wander off into building some straw man characterture of your own making. This being your claim of a supposedly '"preferred" set-piece photo opp'. Now, you might want to claim other failings of, to be specific, ANL mk2, some I would most likely agree with you on, but as for this? Utter tosh.
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Sorry, but I can't help finding your post quite dismissive and slightly weird in its over analysis of my comments.

I'd agree that the ANL Mark One (along with the earlier parent organisation the SWP) was comprised of members who held a different stance. Especially since this is the same political background that many founding RA and AFA members came from. Nevertheless, it's without a doubt that the ANL Mark Two certainly distanced itself both publicly and organisationally from much of the physical force anti-fascism that went on throughout the 80's hand 90's.

Speaking from personal experience, the campaign that we (as AFA) involved ourselves in throughout the midlands during that same period would bear my previous comments out.

For instance, discussions with the ANL and SWP both formal and informal around the issue of the BNP campaigning in the Mansfield and Ashfield area pointed to their intention of holding purely static demonstrations outside polling booths and organising meetings addressed by local Labour politicians. Given this, it's hardly surprising that many were more concerned with (as Lowles hints at) their "PR image".
 
I would agree that there was a "different stance" to what went on before, as I do with the view that that most Labour politicians are interested in a "PR image", but your initial claim of a '"preferred" set-piece photo opp' appeared to sweep with a wider brush, to include those anti-fascists, who although may work alongside Labour politicians at times may have a different "preferred" opp to the "PR image" one, or thinking about it maybe I'm being a bit over sensitive at this time, for some now passed away working class militants. New Year, must move on.
 
audiotech said:
I would agree that there was a "different stance" to what went on before, as I do with the view that that most Labour politicians are interested in a "PR image", but your initial claim of a '"preferred" set-piece photo opp' appeared to sweep with a wider brush, to include those anti-fascists, who although may work alongside Labour politicians at times may have a different "preferred" opp to the "PR image" one, or thinking about it maybe I'm being a bit over sensitive at this time, for some now passed away working class militants. New Year, must move on.
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No problem. I'm not intending to create the view that anyone who stood outside AFA were a waste. To give them credit, there were always certain individuals (especially in the unions) who held 'respectable positions' but supplied us with essential info on Fascist activity. In many ways wr couldn't have operated as successfully without them.
 
bignose1 said:
Fair do's.
Click to expand...

If I was going to do a full proper review would need a copy of No Retreat and Beating the Fascists (and maybe Anti-Fascism in Britain) but I don't have access to either so I can't cross-reference blah blah.

I did finish the book today however. It's a good oral history but it does raise a few questions.

I'm going to gather my thoughts and notes, and maybe ask them :)
 
good idea. i think he has got a lot of very good interviews and also sources esp 43 Group, IB members. it is important to bare in mind that it was 'unfinished.'
 
intersol32 said:
To quote the Nick Lowles HnH article:

"HOPE not hate joined a community campaign which helped force the venue owner to withdraw the invitation. Success, so we thought. However, a few BNP supporters did turn up and were attacked by anti-fascists, one with a hammer. What began as a great success story turned into a PR disaster as images of the beaten man dominated local, regional and even national news for three days."

I think this neatly sums up the liberal view of militant anti-fascism. Assuming that everyone shares the same opinion of a particular news article, and also the reliance upon a mainstream media to put HnH's agenda out there for public consumption.

It's another reason why the ANL and other lefty groups despised AFA's confrontational and uncompromising stance. They didn't want images of "rough looking types" throwing BNP members out of council estates dominating press coverage. Instead they preferred set piece photos of middle class demonstrators holding posters and shaking hands with local politicians (who were usually the cause of the rise in sympathy for the BNP in the first place).

Lowles is talking out of his rear when he claims that the concept of 'No Platform' has changed. In fact he's more or less showing that the liberal view of physical force anti-fascism is still the same as it was 20 years ago.
Click to expand...

Lowles account of what happened at Leigh Bridge is factually wrong.

However, a few BNP supporters did turn up and were attacked by anti-fascists, one with a hammer. What began as a great success story turned into a PR disaster as images of the beaten man dominated local, regional and even national news for three days.
Click to expand...
The anti-fascists did not "attack the BNP" the BNP attacked them, as they (the UAF) were stood gormlessly outside a pub after it turned out their meeting place was riddled with BNP. Were it not for the timely intervention of one young lad and a hammer the local news would've been dominated by the images of perhaps a dozen or so UAF protestors smashed to fucking bits - presumably Nick Lowles thinks that'd make for much better PR than the image of Tony Ward's bloodied face. I suspect he wouldn't feel the same way if it was him, rather tham some middle-aged UAF people who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag, who had Andrew Tierney whacking him around with one of those extendable police truncheon thingy's.
 
Delroy Booth said:
Lowles account of what happened at Leigh Bridge is factually wrong.


The anti-fascists did not "attack the BNP" the BNP attacked them, as they (the UAF) were stood gormlessly outside a pub after it turned out their meeting place was riddled with BNP.
Click to expand...

Somewhat a distorted picture from the video posted at the time of events preceding. This, of one BNP member walking through the demonstrators in a bid to intimidate and another with a camera filming it. I also recall two anti-fascists, women, one in particular being far from, as you describe, "stood gormlessly".
 
They weren't all gormless fair enough that unwarranted, I'll take that back.

But no otherwise I'm right, the BNP attacked first. the UAF group didn't even realise what was going on at first.
 
Were you there?

It's possible they did realise what was going on and were wise enough not to rise to the bait? The camera in the hands of the BNP supporter filming events was perhaps a clue?
 
audiotech said:
Were you there?

It's possible they did realise what was going on and were wise enough not to rise to the bait? The camera in the hands of the BNP supporter filming events was perhaps a clue?
Click to expand...

Oh yeah and btw Lowles makes out like UAF had planned on doing some squaddism (I fucking wish!) or that the purpose of the thing was to go and smash up a meeting. That's just not true. What I was told was that they were going to have a nice peaceful demo outside the place where the BNP meeting was being held (which initially, iirc, was going to be a nightclub in the town centre, but that could've been a deliberate attempt at misdirection) to pressure them owners into pulling out. Infact me and my friends were told specifically "you'd better not be planning on going pub-wrecking it's not that kind of thing" before we set off.

My exact memory of it is a bit hazy now, and I didn't arrive at the scene 'til just after Tony Ward got bopped on his head (I arrived just as the BNP Land Rover was being tipped over) but I've heard accounts of those few minutes leading up to when I arrived from about half a dozen seperate people, some of whom are good friends of mine who I trust completely, and they all said pretty much the same thing; the UAF group were meant to be meeting up at a pub on St.Helens road near Leigh Bridge, they got there, and it turned out was also a meeting place the BNP were using before going to their final destination. The BNP kept having to change their destination so they were basically just lingering in this pub waiting to find out where to go. The UAF lot left the pub, after an awkward few seconds at the bar lol, then stood outside doing nothing for a while (which is the point those videos are taken from I presume) whilst the BNP lot were basically pushing them around, sticking camera's in their faces and so on. Then the BNP Land Rover turned up, 4 men (all well known Liverpool and North West BNP thugs) got out with weapons, started heading towards the UAF lot. Now it's worth pointing out that the BNP weren't filming this particular bit. At exactly this point some lad comes screaming down a side alley with a hammer*, bops Tony Ward on the head, runs around the road a bit screaming, the BNP shit themselves and scatter, and the BNP Land Rover gets turned over and smashed to bits by the UAF protestors. More UAF started appearing after this, however the first group who were there were outnumbered, on their own, and I don't think many of them could've fought their way out of that situation based on my initial impression when I got there.

*I've heard a few versions of this story some say he didn't have a hammer, and that the hammer was one that Andrew Tierney had brought that he'd dropped on the floor in the melee. One other person told me he pounced out the back of a white van that was parked up in a side-street.
 
No worries.

The fact Lowles is regurgitating this false story is pretty shitty and should tell you everything you need to know about Hope Not Hate. They'd have preferred it if the story ended with half a dozen UAF being hospitalised by the BNP.

And I don't remember Hope Not Hate being involved in any "community campaign" at around what happened in leigh. They certainly didn't help get the meeting closed down. Unless some of the people involved who I've always thought were acting personally were actually working on behalf of Hope Not Hate without me realising it.
They might've phoned up the nightclub and got them to agree to cancel it, but so fuckin' what, the BNP used to deliberately pick a place to have their meeting that they knew they would cancel, trying to wrong foot us. It's not a new tactic, perhaps the first two or three options would be blatant misdirection aimed at keeping lefties away. I mean, holding a BNP fundraiser in a fucking open nightclub? Does it sound realistic? Nah they were never gonna hold it there.

EDIT: think I've fucked the dates up, did this all happen after the Euro elections or before? I can't remember.

Remember I was of the Labour party at the time. I wasn't the only one their either. I was far more a Labour Party squaddist than a UAF one. I was also a Labour member in Salford around the time the BNP were campaigning heavily to get Griffin elected to the EU parliament. We had Griffin roaming about all over the fucking place, it was a nightmare. I don't remember Hope Not Hate offering us fuck all by way of support. We were completely on our own, and many of the younger people were very scared and needed support that I personally couldn't give them, as much I did my best. At least the UAF actually came out leafletting and could be relied upon to turn up at demo's, although their attitude was unhelpful in many other ways.
 
Yes, telephoning venues is part of HnH's MO.

I do know someone who is now linked to HnH. Was heavily involved in Barking and Dagenham.
 
audiotech said:
Yes, telephoning venues is part of HnH's MO.

I do know someone who is linked to HnH. Was heavily involved in Barking and Dagenham.
Click to expand...

Thing about that is the BNP are well wise to it. The venue they list as the one they're having a meeting in would generally be some random place they have no intention of having a a meeting in. Then HnH phone up, the meeting is "cancelled" HnH pat themselves on the back for some top-notch community campaigning and the BNP get on with having a real meeting, the location of which is given out over the phones at the last minute to avoid lefties finding out.
 
Well, after time the BNP would adapt their tactics to circumstances. They're not stupid. HnH need to follow suit, if they've not done already.
 
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