Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action

[Red Storm]

From what I have been told them lads with the hammer and dogs stopped a massacre of the UAF.

 

[malatesta32]

How does your book match up?

in mine, the first section is euro-fascism, eire, scotland, and england pre-2nd world war, then post-war uk antifascism and then the last section is on the EDL. inevitably there will be similarities given the subject but not in the 1st and last parts. our writing styles as well as pretty different.

 

[Red Storm]

in mine, the first section is euro-fascism, eire, scotland, and england pre-2nd world war, then post-war uk antifascism and then the last section is on the EDL. inevitably there will be similarities given the subject but not in the 1st and last parts. our writing styles as well as pretty different.

Is yours an oral history like Hann's?

 

[malatesta32]

TBH I don't think she could ever hope to finish it the way Hann would have been intending in his head. She has tied it up but I don't think its as good as it would have been had Hann lived to finish it 100%.

i think this is probably right. the book is well worth a read though and you just have to bare in mind that it was unfinished and louise did the best anyone could have done given the far from ideal circs.

 

[malatesta32]

Is yours an oral history like Hann's?

no its not. i collated a vast amount of material on europe first then on the UK. the EDL part will be based on all the 'malatesta' pieces 'as it happened' kind of thing. i have also used stuff from on here by liam (very funny!), intersol, framed, frogwoman etc. which are 'people's history.'

 

[malatesta32]

If I was going to do a full proper review would need a copy of No Retreat and Beating the Fascists (and maybe Anti-Fascism in Britain) but I don't have access to either so I can't cross-reference blah blah.

I did finish the book today however. It's a good oral history but it does raise a few questions.

I'm going to gather my thoughts and notes, and maybe ask them

maybe a summation of antifascist lit so far cd be good for the website. not that there's loads though.

 

[malatesta32]

... Tony Ward's bloodied face. I suspect he wouldn't feel the same way if it was him, rather tham some middle-aged UAF people who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag, who had Andrew Tierney whacking him around with one of those extendable police truncheon thingy's.

tony 'hammerhead' ward the cross dressing 'race mixer' who married a chinese woman to stop her from 'breeding.' there was film footage of 'hammertime' somewhere which shows exactly what happened.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Dave Renton's review of Dave Hann's new book:
http://londonsocialisthistorians.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/book-review-physical-resistance.html

 

[Red Storm]

no its not. i collated a vast amount of material on europe first then on the UK. the EDL part will be based on all the 'malatesta' pieces 'as it happened' kind of thing. i have also used stuff from on here by liam (very funny!), intersol, framed, frogwoman etc. which are 'people's history.'

Okay. It'll be very different to Hann's then

 

[malatesta32]

i think there is sufficient difference between the 2. there aint enough books on militant antifascism yet though!

 

[bignose1]

i think this is probably right. the book is well worth a read though and you just have to bare in mind that it was unfinished and louise did the best anyone could have done given the far from ideal circs.

I think people who may think that way(Redstorm) probably fail to take into account they lived together for 15+ years and they knew each other pretty well. He ran out of time but the essence is its Daves book and its irrelevant whether it got finished by her. In my conversations with Dave when he knew he was seriously ill and not able to finish it he knew it would be left in good hands.

 

[malatesta32]

i think renton's (surprisingly fair) review backs your point of view up re: ' a strong sense of his basic generosity of spirit.'

 

[bignose1]

i think renton's (surprisingly fair) review backs your point of view up re: 'a strong sense of his basic generosity of spirit.'

Although me and Dave had run ins politically...sometimes I couldnt get across that I was onside with him...having to tread a careful path with Searchlight which was a fucking pain sometimes as you got it from both sides...he was quite sympathetic but did put his foot down on a few occasions.

My departure from Searchlight inner circle in 93/4 on the basis that I had to choose was a godsend in many ways and although in a down turn period the antifash stuff wasnt as 'mad'... I really started to enjoy the freedom it gave and go my own way and to have normal friendships...I know it sounds a bit wet but I think you need to have some normal mates. Dave and his family became close friends and I have defended Dave against the allegations made by OShea etc because I know them to be untrue....not because he's a pal.

They concocted a smear campaign after they were found out to have lied about it. I dont expect those who have been behind the most recent attacks on him and his ex partner to show ny let up. No doubt any review they may write will all be about them and their absolute inability to let their bruised ego's recover from the fact that others had the audacity to write a book on a subject they feel they own. Crivvens. (c)

 

[Red Storm]

I think people who may think that way(Redstorm) probably fail to take into account they lived together for 15+ years and they knew each other pretty well. He ran out of time but the essence is its Daves book and its irrelevant whether it got finished by her. In my conversations with Dave when he knew he was seriously ill and not able to finish it he knew it would be left in good hands.

I think its been finished as well as it could have been. I just think that only the original person with the original idea would know when it was finished, how far it was supposed to go and whether it was to their expected standard. I meant nothing bad by it; only that the best it could have been is if Hann had finished it but the book is near the best it could have been given the circumstance.

 

[Red Storm]

i think renton's (surprisingly fair) review backs your point of view up re: 'a strong sense of his basic generosity of spirit.'

I'm not keen on his review personally.

 

[bignose1]

I think its been finished as well as it could have been. I just think that only the original person with the original idea would know when it was finished, how far it was supposed to go and whether it was the their expected standard. I meant nothing bad by it; only that the best it could have been is if Hann had finished it but the book is near the best it could have been given the circumstance.

Point taken Storm and I didnt think you meant to come across harsh. What sprung to mind just before is as you kmow I knew Steig Larsson and had stayed with him and Eva in Stockholm. When she did her book launch last year in London about her life with him I spoke to her about Dave having an unfinished book and how it would be his wish for it to be finished if time ran out. It was widely publisized that their was a 4th unfinished book that was on a lap top. As she has been written out of Steigs legacy by his father and brother its 'existence' became a point of contention.

Whether or not there is such a manuscript the fact is she was with him for 30 + years and was influential in all his works. Discussing characters,locations, story lines, etc. If she were to finish a '4th' book I dont think it wouldnt be Steigs...its the legacy thats important.

 

[malatesta32]

im just surprised over the lack 'macho squaddists' etc. which has been renton's usual line. ive read far worse reviews! and had them!

 

[Joe Reilly]

Dave Renton's review of Dave Hann's new book:
http://londonsocialisthistorians.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/book-review-physical-resistance.html

"His account is the first I have come across to acknowledge the changing character of Red Action (most of whose early members left very quickly) and to begin the story of Anti-Fascist Action’s demise (Birchall’s book stops at the 1992 Battle of Waterloo, AFA’s “Cable Street”, without beginning to explain how quickly the organisation decayed thereafter)."

Not sure what Renton is implying by the 'changing character' of Red Action, but the notion that BTF stops at 1992 and AFA 'quickly decayed' afterwards is pure baloney.

Now whether he is getting that from the book or from his own 'research' is hard to tell at the moment but it's hardly auspicious.

 

[malatesta32]

fighting talk was still being published in 2000 was it not?

 

[Red Storm]

2001

 

[framed]

I bought the Kindle edition and after a quick scan-through, I am now going through it again in order to review it for TAL.

The eye-witness accounts from history are a good read and lend it an air of authenticity.

A glaring departure from the general gist of the book is obvious imho when it comes to the modern period, especially where there is overlap between the ANL, Squads, Red Action and AFA. I would go as far as to speculate that it was a hand other than Hann's that finished this section and drew the (wrong) political conclusions from it. The politics of gender and identity litter the book's final chapters.

I was a bit disappointed with Mick O'Farrell's contribution, edit, a lot of the old stories and anecdotes are there, but in conclusion he appears to concur with Purbrick (I assume that this is Louise's opinion of RA because I never heard or read Dave express his disagreements in these terms) and the oft-repeated myths about Red Action's membership in terms of race and gender. Mick moans about the political deterioration of Red Action as a reason for his split with the group. I joined RA not long after Mick had left and I strongly disagree with his estimation of the organisation. If anything, the politics and theoretical positions of Red Action were further developed in his absence.

Then again, I suppose if someone else who was also there had already told all my best anecdotes in another book, I'd be pissed off too.

EDIT: Perhaps the least credible contribution comes from John Severn, one of Dave Hann's supporters in Manchester AFA. He repeats the falsehood that Red Action forced AFA to abandon the streets in favour of 'electoralism', rather than it being the BNP who decided to leave the battlefield first. A ceasefire soldier whose own contribution to AFA was, according to his own description, less than glorious. Perhaps a bit of 'that old Red Action discipline' might have served John well in the only other major AFA event that he recalls? The man who rails against Red Action for abandoning the streets made the trip down to London for the Battle of Waterloo only to be nicked by police before the event, carrying a lump of cannabis in his pocket. He didn't strike a blow for anti-fascism all day, he was in a police cell on a possession of drugs charge.

An objective editor with no political or personal axe to grind against Red Action or AFA would have deleted this story out of sheer embarrassment, but as it is one of the few references to AFA's greatest street triumph by a person who was opposed to Red Action, it is included.

 

[Red Storm]

I bought the Kindle edition and after a quick scan-through, I am now going through it again in order to review it for TAL.

The eye-witness accounts from history are a good read and lend it an air of authenticity.

A glaring departure from the general gist of the book is obvious imho when it comes to the modern period, especially where there is overlap between the ANL, Squads, Red Action and AFA. I would go as far as to speculate that it was a hand other than Hann's that finished this section and drew the (wrong) political conclusions from it. The politics of gender and identity litter the book's final chapters.

I was particularly disappointed with Mick O'Farrell's contribution, which appear to concur with Purbrick and the oft-repeated myths about Red Action's membership in terms of race and gender. Mick moans about the political deterioration of Red Action as a reason for his split with the group. I joined RA just after Mick had left and I have to strongly disagree with his estimation of the organisation. If anything, the politics and theoretical positions of Red Action were further developed in his absence.

Then again, I suppose if someone else who was also there had already told all my best anecdotes in another book, I'd be pissed off too.

Looking forward to reading what you write. I'm writing up my thoughts at the moment

Re: the kindle version. Are you getting a lot of these 'inci-dent', 'how-ever', 'bl-ah' in mid sentence?

 

[framed]

I've edited and added to that post now.

Yes, there's a lot of unnecessarily hyphenated words in the Kindle version.

 

[The39thStep]

Not sure that Renton draws any political lessons from the book at all

 

[framed]

Btw, the book also includes one of the best anecdotal accounts of AFA activities that I've read. It comes from 'Sean Geoghan' who I suspect is a poster here. His accounts of the harassment of Ian Stuart Donaldson and other stories make for excellent and entertaining reading.

 

[bignose1]

I hate people who use hyphen-ated words

 

[ayatollah]

Just skimmed through my Kindle edition of "Physical Resistance - A hundred years of Anti-fascism" . Well worth getting via Kindle ( possibly the reading format of the future for better or worse) - because you can get it TODAY, instantly - rather than on the release date for the book of 25th January - and Kindle download is £6 - rather than £12 for the book !

I think Hann's partner Louis Purbrick has done a really wonderful job in pulling together this excellent multi activist oral history of anti fascism book from the late Dave Hann's interviews and research. The book is very good indeed - a must for any anti fascist to read. I particularly enjoyed the recollections stuff by old comrade,Mick O'Farrell . A really good spread of activist recollections going waaaaaaay back to the 1920's - it really makes one feel part of an honourable historical tradition.

Also good to see just how "across the Left spectrum" the role in opposing fascism physically has been at different times and different places. Great stuff . We all probably fast forwarded to the particular era of activity in which we were active -- I did anyway ! Given the long historical spread of the book there is certainly something for everyone .

Though I have my lawyers ready to demand a retraction of the dastardly inaccuracy that the term "Squad" arose first in London with Mickey Fenn's "team" in 1977 . "Squad" is an entirely copyrighted brand name belonging to us Manchester chaps thankyou very much -- as Tilzey will confirm...and all youse groupings that used it since owe us big bucks in royalties !

 

[gawkrodger]

where can I buy this in book form?

edit: Obviously not out yet then!

 

[audiotech]

I ordered the book before Xmas from Amazon, delivery date 29th January.

Others to ponder.

 

[chilango]

I have a copy of No Retreat that is going in my cull of books. If anyone wants it PM me or it'll be in the Oxfam box in a week or two.