World Athletics Championships 2017
- Thread starter QueenOfGoths
- Start date
Sirena
Don't monkey with the buzzsaw
I disagree. She is quite specially anomalous.
The only remotely comparable 'female' athletes in the last 40 years have been (coincidentally, both 800m specialists too) Maria Mutola (She's a lady, man) and Jarmila Kratochvilova (Jarmila Kratochvílová - Wikipedia) and both of those may have been the result of huge tesosterone doping.
Smangus
comatose at a desk
If she was 10-20 metres ahead of pack I would see the point, but she isn't.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Things get messy already then. It's ok because while she's good, she's not that good, but if she were that good, that would be a problem.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Kratochvilova still holds the 800 m world record and may hold it for decades to come unless records are wiped. She was a drug-cheat, as were all the other miraculous record-breakers of the 80s whose records still stand.
Casual Observer
enough
That's the point that I'm making. Her high testosterone levels, which some people object to, don't really give her the advantage people think.
Sirena
Don't monkey with the buzzsaw
It is only testosterone that changes the standard model female foetus into a man.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
... a point made here also:
She's a lady, man
Semenya's story got me thinking about Maria Muttola who, whilst I don't remember any specific test results, suffered from commentator's comments throughout her career (coincidentally, Muttola is or was Semenya's coach). And following some kind of 6 degrees of separation, Kelly Holmes - Muttola's former friend and training partner - is an interesting comparison. There's a piece here going all intersectional about her treatment, though frustratingly you can't read the whole piece:
Double Trouble: Kelly Holmes, Intersectionality and Unstable Narratives of Olympic Heroism in the British Media
AS a gay, black woman she may well have suffered abuse inside and outside athletics - and there may well have been reference to here muscular frame in there (I can't remember to be honest). But it's interesting that as a westerner - and also someone who is, as the media play these things, 'conventionally pretty/feminine' - that she hasn't been attacked in the same way Muttloa and Semnya have been.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I'm surprised you'd quote that piece on Mutola - it doesn't exactly add to your case. Also, what evidence do you have about Mutola doping?
No, the point is that her body advantage is in practice no bigger than, say, Kipyegon's body advantage and quite a lot less than the younger Dibaba's body advantage.
The point is that if you are going to claim a natural physical feature is such a huge advantage that it warrants bans or chemical suppression, you really should have some evidence that it is actually that massive an advantage.
But we invest a lot in images of femininity and whilst being tiny thin is unmarked, being muscular draws disgust. So we are willing to take it as read that the thing we don't like should be banned and the things we don't mind are fine. The fact that Semenya also belongs to an incredibly marginalised marked group in the first place then makes it easier for this narrative to take root and propagate -- if she was a blonde and rich American, there would be a mighty powerful media and political bloc swinging in behind her.
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colacubes
Mr Hot Cookie
Anyway, moving on. The atmosphere in the stadium last night was amazing. Gutted for Laura Muir especially as everyone was on their feet screaming and she really had a go but couldn't quite there. We were sat right by the women's triple jump final and it was incredibly exciting 
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Everyone is 'specifically anomalous' once you know what 'abnormality' is. Stop trying to hide your bigotry.
Oh, you have stopped hiding your bigotry. Vile fucking comments
Hollis
bloody furious
You're not even 70th... one of my mates ran a sub-3 marathon last year, which meant she'd have beaten a few in the final..
Not that I agree with your sentiment...but I find it weird that 14 of the runners dropped out the women's marathon. I mean how many times do you get to run in the World Athletics Championship?
Casual Observer
enough
...but I find it weird that 14 of the runners dropped out the women's marathon. I mean how many times do you get to run in the World Athletics Championship?
First time I've heard that but it is a very high number. Might have something to do with food poisoning at one of the athlete hotels. The womens' marathon was run unusually late in the day this time but the weather, luckily, wasn't oppressively hot.
Doesn't American football try something along these lines?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Not exactly. The weakest team gets the first draft pick the following year, but they can trade that position for $$$$$
Revenue sharing, etc?
felixthecat
are we there yet?
Anyway, moving on. The atmosphere in the stadium last night was amazing. Gutted for Laura Muir especially as everyone was on their feet screaming and she really had a go but couldn't quite there. We were sat right by the women's triple jump final and it was incredibly exciting
It was wasn't it? I was on your side of the stadium for the triple jump - we shared medical points so we moved around a bit more last night. I find it really difficult to watch - I'm convinced someone's knee is going to collapse under the phenomenal force. And watching it in slo-mo from the front on the big screen makes me feel queasy. Its a completely ridiculous discipline - but wow.
Dr. Furface
One small step for me
The NFL tries to achieve a 'level playing field' with a package of measures including preferential draft picks (acquiring new players), schedule weighting and salary caps, which together are reasonably effective over time. But it's a bit of a pointless comparison in the athletics context.
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QueenOfGoths
Fuck you Dave!
The food poisoning things is strange, I would be extremely pissed off if I went to a major athletics event and got food poisoning from something I ate. If it was just one person then it might be blamed in their individual diet or something but it is more than one isn't it?
Dr. Furface
One small step for me
It's about 30 athletes and other team members, mainly affecting the Canadians and Germans. Strange indeed if other countries were staying there - and also people not in the Games - and nobody else was affected by it.
Eta - apparently also one athlete from Botswana and one from Ireland affected too.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Laura Muir keeping out of the Semenya thing:
Laura Muir refuses to enter Caster Semenya debate after heartbreak
Laura Muir refuses to enter Caster Semenya debate after heartbreak
There's an article that begs the question.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
It's a really shitty article that basically says 'ooh, she's a cheat, unlike our plucky Brit who was in (gender appropriate) tears.' Ignores just how many people are hyperandrogenous (5-10% of all women), and the fact that studies of top athletes regularly show an even larger proportion of women with 'high' testosterone levels and a similar proportion of men with 'low' levels. Still, facts, eh?
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
Asher-Smith taking care of business
felixthecat
are we there yet?
This treatment of Isaac Makwala is appalling.
Sirena
Don't monkey with the buzzsaw
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
It's ridiculous. A 24 hour ban makes sense, but after that he should obviously be allowed to run. It's not as if he's making the other runners' dinner.
