Why is Urban Pol full of racist threads?

[exosculate]

"Pulling up the Drawbridge" A phrase that says a lot about the Racism Bigotry and Ignorance of the Liberal Middle Class.

I have not once blamed Immigrants or people from Immigrant stock....I leave that to closet Racists like you....

Indeed. The twaddle that the trots come out with truly is quite reactionary.

They are like a band playing to an auditorium with no audience - yet spending the whole time telling that non existent audience how they know much better than everyone else about everything.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

"Pulling up the Drawbridge" A phrase that says a lot about the Racism Bigotry and Ignorance of the Liberal Middle Class.

You spout a lot of verbiage but you're not very bright are you? The phrase was a reference to the mindset of those in ethnic minority communities who adopt a racist attitiude towards those who arrive in other/later waves of immigration. Not my mindset, get it?

 

[tbaldwin]

You spout a lot of verbiage but you're not very bright are you? The phrase was a reference to the mindset of those in ethnic minority communities who adopt a racist attitiude towards those who arrive in other/later waves of immigration. Not my mindset, get it?

No its your racist interpretation thats the problem.....Showing just what a clever bloke you are???????

 

[durruti02]

Nope was watching in Kilburn.

But if you've been around Tims then durruti02 I would have thought you'd be a little more sensitive to the need not to treat immigrants as a problem. Irish immigrants weren't the problem in Scotland in the 19th century (despite what sectarian bigots, including some socialists said). And their modern equivalents aren't either. How the left and trades unions approach immigrant workers certainly is.

of course irish immigrants were not THE problem .. as always it is capitalism that is THE problem .. sadly it is fact that ON OCASSION irish were used as strike breakers .. as indeed immigrants were used at Irish Ferries and Gate Gourmet .. ( and plenty of 'natives' have done to!!) we need to be honest if we are to deal with this issue ..

and yep have been around a whole load of tims .. i miss my crew of glasgow socialist republicans from the 8ts .. (part of that tragic ongoing immigration the irish were forced into by british imperialism and potato blight) and p.s. half of them were expelled from the sw for no more than being w/c as i could see .. didn't fit in .. ]

and still to this day many of my friends are immigrants ..as is normal for london .. and those who i have spoke to about this say yes it is clear that what is happenning is just cost cutting .. not as in the 6ts when there was full employment

maybe we can explain things by this .. that it was in an attempt to defend refugees, (and out of undeniable liberalism of many in the left, ) that the the sw and all ( and the TUs ) have lost their direction with ordinary people .. but it is a disaster

we have to be clear .. the bosses are to blame .. and racism is wrong .. but equally we need to be honest .. immigration is not just a natural phenomena but a response to capitalism .. and the current wave is ENTIRELY about cheap wages ..

if the left do not acknowledge this with people, who can see with their eyes, .. they will be seen as liars and hypocrits ... and people will listen to the bnp

and you never answered my post

" .... but what is amazing is how so far wide of the mark in understanding marxism you are ...

the working class have nothing but their labour power .. agreed?
the bosses use the reserve army of labour to counter act this power .. agreed?
so what is yer problem mate [with what i am saying]??

and where where where has it ever been suggestted that i am anti immigration or anti immigrant??

your inability to understand workerist politics/trade unionism is symptomatic of how the left have been blinded by idiotic middle class ideology that ends up with them tailending new labour and the state on immigration and many other issues..

i get the impression you have come to this debate late if you so misunderstand my views .. i am all in favour of organising immigrants .. and unlike most on this site i actually work along side new wave immigrants .. as equals ..

it is not immigration that is the problem .. but that it is currently being used as part of a neo liberal agenda .. it is leftist narrow mindedness at its worst / or the middle class dominance of the left that has seen you miss this ..."

and p.s. what channel in 1982 was a scottish league game on

 

[colacho]

I don't like saying he's right, so I'll just say he's not wrong.

Same here, this time about revol68. Fucking spot on on this thread... The horror of all this is that we have a bunch of pretend leftists hunkering down behind national boundaries, claiming that that's "realism". They want to dump the state but seem unable to see through the nation... And anybody who points out that working class racism is being manipulated by the masters is accused of being "middle class" or "anti-working class". FFS, all of you fuckwits in favour of immigration controls should reach for Gramsci and do some thinking.

 

[snadge]

Same here, this time about revol68. Fucking spot on on this thread... The horror of all this is that we have a bunch of pretend leftists hunkering down behind national boundaries, claiming that that's "realism". They want to dump the state but seem unable to see through the nation... And anybody who points out that working class racism is being manipulated by the masters is accused of being "middle class" or "anti-working class". FFS, all of you fuckwits in favour of immigration controls should reach for Gramsci and do some thinking.

good post....

the way to get the whole problem under control is through wage parity.

 

[exosculate]

good post....

the way to get the whole problem under control is through wage parity.

It may well be easier to thread a camel through the eye of a needle.

 

[snadge]

It may well be easier to thread a camel through the eye of a needle.

but that is the area we need to address.

 

[tbaldwin]

Same here, this time about revol68. Fucking spot on on this thread... The horror of all this is that we have a bunch of pretend leftists hunkering down behind national boundaries, claiming that that's "realism". They want to dump the state but seem unable to see through the nation... And anybody who points out that working class racism is being manipulated by the masters is accused of being "middle class" or "anti-working class". FFS, all of you fuckwits in favour of immigration controls should reach for Gramsci and do some thinking.

Yes perhaps you could go door to door spreading the good word of Gramsci........

As for being a fake leftie.....If it means opposing Richer countries taking the skilled workers poorer nations need most....Then i must be a fake Leftie.....

You really need to do some thinking and looking at the words of dead people can only help you to a point.
Gramsci was not alive to see how Imperialism adapted to the end of empires..
If he had been i doubt very much if he would be lining up with people whos basic lack of Internationalism is a bit scarey....

 

[SuburbanCasual]

Who gives a fuck what some Gramsci or any other dead russian said? We are dealing with the realities of mass migration now! And working class people as always are in the front line, unskilled workers like me have to compete with foreign doctors and IT workers for unskilled work which they are directly driving down the wages for, not to mention depriving the countries that paid for their training of much needed doctors and nurses and technical workers.

It's exactly the same selfish atomised everyone for their self greed that so many of the middle class UK left accuse British workers of.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

some Gramsci or any other dead russian said?

I know these selfish foreigners all look the same but you'd manage to look a little less like a selfish little englander if you didn't confuse Italians and Russians.

 

[SuburbanCasual]

I'm sorry I don't have an in depth knowledge of revolutionaries, I must read more big expensive tomes.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

I'm sorry I don't have an in depth knowledge of revolutionaries, I must read more big expensive tomes.

Most of it's online and free and you clearly have access to the internet. And even before that workers have being educating themselves at home and with other leftwing workers in study cricles in their own time for centuries. 'Organic intelectuals' Gramsci called them. They knew that willful ignorance was a weapon in the hands of the bosses.

 

[SuburbanCasual]

Oh please, you don't need to read crappy badly translated books and pamphlets from the 19th century to know that capitalism is shit and we need an alternative.

 

[poster342002]

Indeed. The twaddle that the trots come out with truly is quite reactionary.

They are like a band playing to an auditorium with no audience - yet spending the whole time telling that non existent audience how they know much better than everyone else about everything.

And then insisting that the audience turnout was "MASSIVE", "FANTASTIC", that there "WAS LOADS OF ANGER" and then, of course, that this "BRILLIANT" gig heralded (yet another) HISTORIC OPPORTUNITY for the left.

 

[treelover]

Nice one, Poster

 

[durruti02]

And then insisting that the audience turnout was "MASSIVE", "FANTASTIC", that there "WAS LOADS OF ANGER" and then, of course, that this "BRILLIANT" gig heralded (yet another) HISTORIC OPPORTUNITY for the left.

you forgot to say they sold HUNDREDS of papers and signed up at least 14 new members

 

[poster342002]

The trots seem to like making a complete arse of themselves, don't they? The more the piss is ripped out them, the more they seem to feel the need to act up to the worst stereotypes of themselves and make this even easier to do. Almost as if they're convinced that this must mean they're doing something right. Bizarre.

 

[durruti02]

The trots seem to like making a complete arse of themselves, don't they? The more the piss is ripped out them, the more they seem to feel the need to act up to the worst stereotypes of themselves and make this even easier to do. Almost as if they're convinced that this must mean they're doing something right. Bizarre.

no not entirely bizarre

i have seen it said you can trace this beahviour to the christian evangelical tradition .. the idea you are 100% right/ that you WILL be persecuted etc etc/ that you are a disciple / that you may be even a martyr

we need rid of this tendancy ..

 

[poster342002]

no not entirely bizarre

i have seen it said you can trace this beahviour to the christian evangelical tradition .. the idea you are 100% right/ that you WILL be persecuted etc etc/ that you are a disciple / that you may be even a martyr

Interesteing you should make this comparison, as they do indeed appear to have come full circle and spend an awful lot of their time defending religion to the hilt with an almost.. well .. religious fervour.

I am now finally starting to think that their influence on the cause of progresive politics is at last on the wane - laregly as a result of their own idiotics and defences-of-the-indefencible.

Ironic, really; they're collapsing under the weight of their own contradictions.

 

[audiotech]

How many Dockers of Irish descent marched in support of Enoch Powell?

Most people of Immigrant stock are firmly against mass migration as they are most likely to be competing for jobs and housing.....The middle class left never seem to mention or understand this.

To get away from the anti-trot feeding frenzy for a moment and return to the point of this thread. I've got this question:

Most immigrants get the crap jobs and worst housing, so who are they competing with?

 

[audiotech]

Who gives a fuck what some Gramsci or any other dead russian said? We are dealing with the realities of mass migration now! And working class people as always are in the front line, unskilled workers like me have to compete with foreign doctors and IT workers for unskilled work which they are directly driving down the wages for, not to mention depriving the countries that paid for their training of much needed doctors and nurses and technical workers.

It's exactly the same selfish atomised everyone for their self greed that so many of the middle class UK left accuse British workers of.

War of position and war of manoeuvre will have no relevance to you, so I'll leave that to one side.

Interesting Malawi has taken steps to deliver better pay and conditions for their health workers, curbing the numbers of doctors and nurses leaving for other countries. As a result of these developments there has been an improvement in the quality of care on the wards.

It is important too that governments in developing countries abolish fees for basic education and health care, and subsidise water for the poor.

This development of public services in the developing world with government action and flexible aid can transform societies and make it possible for people to choose to work and live meaningful, purposeful lives in their country of origin.

 

[audiotech]

And then insisting that the audience turnout was "MASSIVE", "FANTASTIC", that there "WAS LOADS OF ANGER" and then, of course, that this "BRILLIANT" gig heralded (yet another) HISTORIC OPPORTUNITY for the left.

Makes a change from your usual miserablism.

 

[Mallard]

Sadly the reason seems to mirrored in this board. It's an infestation by the pseudo left which promotes itself as the only 'alternative politics'. These people seem to turn to mechanistic marxism and adulation of the 'British white working class' cos they're unthinking ideological middle class tossers. It's become like an unthinking moronic cult of self flagalating idiots.

 

[snadge]

and still no one will adress the issue....

 

[Mallard]

and still no one will adress the issue....

Explain?

 

[brasicritique]

Most immigrants get the crap jobs and worst housing, so who are they competing with?

MC5 obviously lives in an affluent socially cleansed area and my guess is they shop in fresh and wild.

 

[Mallard]

Most immigrants get the crap jobs and worst housing, so who are they competing with?

MC5 obviously lives in an affluent socially cleansed area and my guess is they shop in fresh and wild.

?

 

[snadge]

Explain?

I've already explained.

 

[Mallard]

I've already explained.

?