Why do the left believe the govt on immigration but nothing else?
- Thread starter durruti02
- Start date
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Groucho said:
For sure and as for durutti, he's obviously taking the piss by adopting a name like that.
Pigeon said:
I was under the impression that "race" meant -
"A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics."
Based on skin colour.
Are Tony Blair and Gerry Adams different races? I was under the impression races were - black, white etc. Not nationality. But maybe im a silly little boy.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
If you're going to go with a dicvtionary.com definition you shouldnt really add a bit on that isnt there should you? It rather removes the point of quoting the definition in the first place. There is no reason at all why 'skin colour' should be the sole determinant of a 'race'
revol68
what, fucking what?
mattkidd12 said:
Matt, you do realise that the whole concept of race is a myth, there is no biological justification for it, and so like nationalist it is a social construct.
As for me insulting non revolutionaries, well no I don't as it happens. Infact I don't consider myself a revolutionary, I certainly wish to see a social revolution but that does not make me a revolutionary eg someone who makes revolution.
I have no problem standing alongside working class people who entertain sexist, racist or homophobic ideas, on a picket line. I will debate and argue with them of course, and if I think they are genuine bigots i'll try and avoid them.
However I will not allign myself politically with liberals, racists or whole strata of the liberal ruling class to fight a single issue.
The SWP's problem is it is seeking to unite across class lines, with people like MAB who are conservative representatives of the status quo and who are as in touch with Muslim youth as the Pope is with the kids in West Belfast. There is no common interest between the working class and such reactionary middle class tossers, just as there is no common interest between the working class and the Green Party, there may well be moments of overlap, but this is fleeting, and to attempt to build a "politic" on it is madness.
The problem is that the SWP has essentially thrown out any decent class analysis in favour of a multitude of oppressions, blacks, women, muslims and workers and these are distinct moments. Hence one must forget the gays when talking about Iran or Hamas, one most forget the workers when talking about "anti imperialism".
It's a cheap oppurtunism, something present from the days of Lenin and his approach to "Nations", finding it hard work to develop a totalised tendency that is capable of superceding these particular oppressions, they imagine it easier to play "join the dots", with a revolutionary perspective being little more than the collecting of these single issues under one big party.
This morning Reid co-opted his immigration rant on TV into the 'War on Terror' - we've got to keep them out 'cos they might be terrorists. More of the Politics of Fear!!
This whole immigration hysteria reminds me of the days of Enoch Powell though - am I the only one old enough to remember the Private Eye cover cartoon from over 30 years ago - white couple have triplets, two white and one black, and the husband says to the wife in horror "My god, Enoch was right".
This whole immigration hysteria reminds me of the days of Enoch Powell though - am I the only one old enough to remember the Private Eye cover cartoon from over 30 years ago - white couple have triplets, two white and one black, and the husband says to the wife in horror "My god, Enoch was right".
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
and 'many people' believe that the Irish suffered from racist discrimination in this country, as did jews, despite both groups looking basically 'white'. And eastern europeans were considered to be 'slavs' rather than the nordic beauties of the likes of you n me. Suothern Europeans were similarly differently categorised. Of course these 'categories' had to chang ove rtimne for the simple reason that there was absolutely no logical or scientific basis for them, as there arent for any distinct 'races'. Following your 'logic' you should really be arguing that there is no racism at all.mattkidd12 said:
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
belboid said:
You should tell this to Rachamim18, who is constantly telling us all how "cranial dimensions" are used to distinguish Jews from other 'races'.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
ZAMB said:
Aye, keep the population in a state of fear, that way it will be easier to impose even greater surveillance on the public.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
belboid said:
That's what I keep telling him. I even produced some examples of how such 'ideas' were used to keep certain ethnic groups in their 'place' and how these days, any scientist of merit would scoff at such nonsense.
It's little better than phrenology.
Pigeon said:Baflingly, you're excised the reference to "ethnic origin".
But if a joke at the expense of "a stereotypical person from a nation" doesn't involve a stereotypical (mis)reading of that nation's culture, then I don't know what it does involve...
so is calling french "frogs" racist now?
Hawkeye Pearce
We're your friends man...
Reid's ridiculous screed this morning really was laugable "greatest sustained threat since world war two". What a complete cretin, does he seriously expect anyone to fall for this bull shit.
It is so transparent what he's trying to do. He thought he was losing the support of the right wing tabloids so what does he do, serves up a dish of what they life best fear. The tabloids love trying to scare their readers and Reid (like all of new labour) has a manic obsession with getting the right headlines. If you look at the governments immigration policies a lot of them make absolutely no sense whatsoever. That is because new labour seems to base itself solely on whether the murdoch press and the mail loves what they say, that and an authoratarian streak a mile wide that seems to be the only thing Reid has kept from his days as a member of the old Communist party.
It is so transparent what he's trying to do. He thought he was losing the support of the right wing tabloids so what does he do, serves up a dish of what they life best fear. The tabloids love trying to scare their readers and Reid (like all of new labour) has a manic obsession with getting the right headlines. If you look at the governments immigration policies a lot of them make absolutely no sense whatsoever. That is because new labour seems to base itself solely on whether the murdoch press and the mail loves what they say, that and an authoratarian streak a mile wide that seems to be the only thing Reid has kept from his days as a member of the old Communist party.
mauvais
on reddit or something
What are we on about now? Oh yeah, immigration.
The left 'believe' the government when they say immigration is low, because it's the opposite to the right wing media's hysteria. I don't really know what levels immigration is at but I can be pretty damn sure it's a lot less dangerous than Murdoch et al would want you to believe.
Stirring up racial and religious hatred through paranoia and xenophobia isn't a particularly left trait. This government normally shares the same line for different but still pragmatic reasons - it doesn't look particularly good if they're seen to have lost control. However, every so often - such as today - something is to be gained from saying 'immigration might become dangerous' and stir up their own rather more directional breed of fear in order to promote some cause or other - I suspect on this occasion to fit in with some nonsense about terrorism. That was rather simple, really, if I can figure it out.
Still, nice to see the new or perhaps not so new bunch of idiots grouping together again to shelter away from any kind of common sense
The left 'believe' the government when they say immigration is low, because it's the opposite to the right wing media's hysteria. I don't really know what levels immigration is at but I can be pretty damn sure it's a lot less dangerous than Murdoch et al would want you to believe.
Stirring up racial and religious hatred through paranoia and xenophobia isn't a particularly left trait. This government normally shares the same line for different but still pragmatic reasons - it doesn't look particularly good if they're seen to have lost control. However, every so often - such as today - something is to be gained from saying 'immigration might become dangerous' and stir up their own rather more directional breed of fear in order to promote some cause or other - I suspect on this occasion to fit in with some nonsense about terrorism. That was rather simple, really, if I can figure it out.
Still, nice to see the new or perhaps not so new bunch of idiots grouping together again to shelter away from any kind of common sense
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
christ almight matt! did you actualy read what I wrote? Or what several other people wrote? Because you certainly havent even attempted to reply.mattkidd12 said:
There is no such thing as different 'races'. And jews have been racially discrimanted against despite 'appearing white'.
Furtwangler
New Member
belboid said:
This is said quite commonly these days, not sure I am totally convinced. Guess it depends on how you define 'race' in the first place. But maybe a topic for another thread.
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