Why do the left believe the govt on immigration but nothing else?

[durruti02]

the closed shop and the union?

what the fuck are you on about, the Unions have been one of the biggest betrayers of the working class.

Did i say the closed shop was necessarily a reactionary tool? No i fucking didn't, i'm saying that without a socialist content or with a narrow bigotted content, it will become a tool for division.

You still haven't addressed my points about northern ireland or the US.

Should black and catholic workers support closed shops?

You are the fuckng ivory tower fantasist, an Orwellian tourist, you can see only good in your "noble savage" because he's just a projection of your desires. "Hope lies in the Proles", yes quite, but so does despair.

As for Dave Douglass and the ultra leftists, well i'm actually sympathetic to Dave on that one. But then again the NUM weren't trying to formulate immigration fucking policy. I'm certainly not outside and against, but i'm not blinded and uncritical either.

you can not understand/support DD and then say what yu have above ..

you do not understand the basic process of getting either power or progressive ideas .. or how work operates and how people create orgs to defend themselves and from how progressive ideas then come ..

you have no solutions .. if yu do maybe on another thread ..

 

[revol68]

You going to answer my questions about closed shops in the US and northern ireland?

or perhaps you can explain to me why it is the unions continously put the brakes on struggle?

 

[durruti02]

You going to answer my questions about closed shops in the US and northern ireland?

or perhaps you can explain to me why it is the unions continously put the brakes on struggle?

reaction in us and ni ?? ..of course .. but it is not the forms of closed shop/unions that is the problem .. reaction preceded these forms .. the forms gives us a possibility of freedom though ..

 

[revol68]

reaction in us and ni ?? ..of course .. but it is not the forms of closed shop/unions that is the problem .. reaction preceded these forms .. the forms gives us a possibility of freedom though ..

sorry I think you've managed to overlook the numerous times I have said that a closed shop is not "reactionary" in itself.

maybe your just a bit thick.

 

[treelover]

Maybe not on here, but reading post on CIF and on other sites, there is a nasty subtext that the 'white working class'(underclass?) has failed us, not worthy, and that we need a new one. a bit like Brechts saying 'By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier In that case for the government To dissolve the people And elect another' Even more unpleasant is the notion, incredible for left wingers, that migrants are more deserving , they work harder and don't just sit at home, then maybe the ingrained work ethis oc the 19th C left would explain the latter comment.

there does seem to be some overcompensation by the unreconstructed left towards migrants, i wonder why?

 

[revol68]

well see that's the trouble with focussing on the working class as a series of "working class" identities.

Why the fuck you would put your hopes in the "white working class" and then the "migrant working class" is beyond me. The whole point of the working class as a revolutionary class is that it has the potential to explode sich binary division.

For what it's worth i think the reaction to this is focussing on the "needs of the "white working class" is just as idiotic, as if the working class is a series of homogenous sectional interests.

 

[belboid]

....maybe the ingrained work ethis oc the 19th C left ...

I'm sorry, but i object most strongly to anyone claiming that I have a work ethic!

 

[treelover]

lol!

 

[durruti02]

sorry I think you've managed to overlook the numerous times I have said that a closed shop is not "reactionary" in itself.

maybe your just a bit thick.

so why are you oppossed to it being made a major demand of the w/c? .. it would cut immigration and unemployment at a stroke

.. or is it because you think w/c people are backward/racists and can not be trusted to do things the way you and your SWP mates want


and why do you always assume the iwca working class is white!! IWCA/HI groups are all based in mixed areas!! indeed sons and daughters where i am would overwhelmingly benefit BEM groups ..

 

[brasicritique]

Quote Anyone who seeks to reduce the working class to a particular "community" is short circuiting the revolutionary potential of the class Unquote and the bunny rabbits ears it merits

Revo68 did you just win that wankathon if not you should have.My mistake Bellend did.

Why dont you do everyone a favour and start a ;

"What a Marxist revolution in the future would look like enactment society"

Where you can sacrifice the wc on the alter of your ideaological ineptness/whims. Your half way there with your own nobody likes me thread...

Although it is not suprising when you consider that this thread represents the wc/mc split that the left needs to be able to become relevent to people who do not have the luxury of most urbanites

SWP and its fellow travellers ( who i call PC liberal lefties ) still do not get it!!

Next you will all be saying that durruti02 is Dr John Reid

When do we start durruti02 and will the murder of teachers be involved?

 

[cockneyrebel]

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=189795