nino_savatte
No pasaran!
durruti02 said:
Interesting how you seem to have lost the ability to use the quote box.
Why do peoples not understand that immigration is currently based on 'pull'?
- Thread starter durruti02
- Start date
Interesting how you seem to have lost the ability to use the quote box.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
durruti02 said:and p.s. what was that bullshit you keep on about me editing your posts .. never ever have i ever edited any of your posts bruv .. so politely shut the fuck up on that! capisce?
Ah, but you have durruti. Remember that post where you simply added in beckyp's words to my post? There were so many examples of bad spelling in it that I knew much of the text wasn't mine. You see, I'm a stickler for good spelling and punctuation.
In a desperate attempt to 'prove me wrong' you will resort to any underhanded tactic.
Gmart
Well-Known Member
OK calm down guys 
The poor will naturally move towards the rich contries in an effort to make a better life for themselves. Perfectly reasonable and everyone would do the same. Sometimes they make a life for themselves permanently, most times they just work for 10-15 years, sending money home and then returning to live in style during their retirement.
Until we can encourage every country to create jobs and opportunity for their people, thru growth, then they will continue to travel.
The poor will naturally move towards the rich contries in an effort to make a better life for themselves. Perfectly reasonable and everyone would do the same. Sometimes they make a life for themselves permanently, most times they just work for 10-15 years, sending money home and then returning to live in style during their retirement.
Until we can encourage every country to create jobs and opportunity for their people, thru growth, then they will continue to travel.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
durruti02 said:
Still trying to play the innocent. What a surprise.
Gmarthews said:OK calm down guys
The poor will naturally move towards the rich contries in an effort to make a better life for themselves. Perfectly reasonable and everyone would do the same. Sometimes they make a life for themselves permanently, most times they just work for 10-15 years, sending money home and then returning to live in style during their retirement.
Until we can encourage every country to create jobs and opportunity for their people, thru growth, then they will continue to travel.
If we stop poaching skilled workers from poorer countries and start reparations to those countries that would be a good start.
You want to support a status quo that leads to so much human misery.
Gmart
Well-Known Member
I'm not supporting the status quo, it just is the way it is. The solution is not going on about how unfair it is like a bunch of kids, it is acknowledging that life's just like this. You cannot stop people from wanting a better life for themselves, and so the poor will move to the rich areas until they have opportunity at home.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
tbaldwin said:
They aren't "poached", balders, they move.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
durruti02 said:
Why the hell do you think?
They use it because it sounds better than saying "our citizens exercised their freedom to sell their labour to someone other than us".
Hate to disillusion you, but "poached" is an emotive rather than a legal term.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Gmarthews said:
More emotional, of course, but more political? I'd disagree with that. If anything, using a vague term like poaching is the antithesis of "political", all it conveys is a mental image of someone committing an act of theft.
audiotech
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This is one African country where "poaching" only refers to the activity of trapping and killing animals for food.
and
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article2042133.ece
and
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article2042133.ece
MC5 said:
this is zimbabwe MC .. where we all know the econmy has virtually collapsed.
what do you say to this?
Tuesday, 22 February 2005 09:55
BNN: British Nursing News Online · www.bnn-online.co.uk
Stop poaching our medical staff
A report by Save the Children a charity claims that the NHS in Britain is recruiting doctors and nurses from Ghana to fill the shortage of skilled health professionals.
The NHS adopted a code of practice in 1999 that forbids targeting doctors and nurses from Ghana, but since then the number of Ghanaian-trained doctors working in Britain has doubled from 143 to 293.
Save the Children Director General Mike Aaronson says “It is shameful that many poor countries are spending millions of pounds on training nurses and doctors to prop up the UK’s National Health Service”.
Unison, the health workers’ union, urged the Government to “stop taking and start training” overseas health professionals.
Dave Prentis, Unison’s general secretary, said: “We should develop training opportunities for overseas students, pay their tuition fees, give them a bursary and increase the pool of trained health staff internationally.
“It is morally wrong to take nurses and doctors from countries where their services are desperately needed”.
and another repost as AGAIN you must have missed it mate
"repost as MC must have missed it
08-06-2007, 06:07 PM
durruti02
love and rage! Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 2,375
more proof of the problem of 'pull' and poaching .. see particularly page 28
http://www.icn.ch/global/Issue5migration.pdf
and
"Since 2001, the NHS has promised not to engage in "aggressive recruitment" of African nurses, but this promise does not apply to private British hospitals, where African nurses often get their first jobs and later apply to the NHS. Since 1998, 12,115 African nurses have registered to work in Britain."
http://migration.ucdavis.edu/mn/more.php?id=3037_0_5_0
and again "One nation’s response to nurse migration: The view from South Africa .. by Bhungani ka Mzolo"
"The irony is, while affluent First-World countries can afford to build universities and train health workers, they use their highly valued currencies to buy these skills from poor countries such as South Africa. Large numbers of Third-World nurses, physicians and people in other health care specialties now practice their professions in Australia, Canada, the United States and the United Kingdom. These professionals, trained at great cost to their respective countries, now abandon their people for lucrative job offers overseas. When their governments question their patriotism, they argue that it is their right to sell their expertise to the highest bidder.
What’s to be done?
The obvious solution would be for developed countries to stop poaching professionals from other countries and train their own, but I doubt very much whether that would go down well. Some countries, such as the United Kingdom, argue that their population is aging, and they do not have the time to train young people. They need nurses and doctors right now. Yet there are many English nurses working in Saudi Arabia and other countries in the Middle East."
http://www.nursingsociety.org/RNL/1Q.../feature3.html
and "
The migration of skilled health professionals from Africa has adversely affected the quality of care offered in health institutions. Quality, effectiveness, and equity of care are closely linked to the impact of migration from the public sector."
http://www.afro.who.int/dsd/migratio...triesfinal.pdf
note that the WHO here argue ( p.63 ) that remittances are "they cannot fully compensate the losses" and they argue that movemnet of skilled health workers should be restricted ( p64)
ViolentPanda said:
bu that is exactly what they are arguing VP .. that their health care workers are being stolen ... by the rich affluent imperialist west .. and how are they wrong? we can afford not to use this cheapo labour .. but as the papers show this week we continue to do so .. is this lovely neoliberal economy doing this for the third world!!! LOL
Good post durruti02 . Time and time again nino and violet say all of your arguements are based on your own ignorance and prejudice. And then you post research and evidence. And then they ignore it. failing that panda will be along in a minute with an english lesson or another pedantic attempt at derailing the thread,followed by MC5 the man who wants to finish off the unions in this country.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
durruti02 said:
You (and they) continue to use this kind of emotional language. These people are not "poached", you fucking moron.
Oh and I would like to see evidence of trade unions using this word. If you would be so kind.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
durruti02 said:
So no reply then? I said that "you're still trying to play innocent" and this is all you can come up with?
You're not the sharpest tool in the box - are you?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
durruti02 said:
Then they're arguing rubbish.
People and their skills aren't a resource that belongs to governments or nations, they're a resource that belongs to the people who have those skills.
As it is, many "third-world"/developing countries contractually require their skilled workers to "sign on" for long post-training periods of service (something we've discussed previously, and which I recall you weren't aware of), much like an enlistee for military service over here. Are you saying that such a contract isn't good enough, that the person with the skills should be contractually and morally required to give their entire working career over to servicing the needs of their home country? I'd call that indentured servitude.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Actually, I've not argued that of durutti (although I have of Baldwin) because I don't believe he's either ignorant or prejudiced.becky p said:
More blah blah, but still hardly a single substantive post, becky.And then you post research and evidence. And then they ignore it. failing that panda will be along in a minute with an english lesson or another pedantic attempt at derailing the thread,followed by MC5 the man who wants to finish off the unions in this country.
Gmart
Well-Known Member
I appreciate that people go on about this poaching, but it's just freedom.
And the reaction to this by many here is the imposition of controls to stop this freedom. This knee jerk authoritarianism is not always going to be a good thing and actually the people involved will not THANK the authorities for stopping them from looking for and finding a better life for themselves.
And the reaction to this by many here is the imposition of controls to stop this freedom. This knee jerk authoritarianism is not always going to be a good thing and actually the people involved will not THANK the authorities for stopping them from looking for and finding a better life for themselves.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Gmarthews said:
I honestly don't know how these people propose how these controls should be imposed. I keep hearing how immigration control should be handed over to the "working class" or the "community". Though how such schemes would work has not been mentioned or elaborated upon.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
nino_savatte said:
As I said above, any system which morally and contractually obligates a person to sell their labour to a specific institution in perpetuity would be using a system of indentured servitude, especially as the quid pro quo contractual obligations that arise from the defraying of a professional's training by a state or institution (a well-known practice both in the developing and the developed world) can be very stringent anyway.
audiotech
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durruti02 said:
I've replied to all that. I don't take Prentis at all seriously, so I'll pass on his "moral" argument.
Most of Africa, including Zimbabwe is on it's knees economically. I'm don't see it as an issue people coming here to find work and use their skills to benefit people, when they can't do that in their own countries, because they are unable to due to economic and civil strife.
So, are you Prentis and the RCN and whoever going to make an exception for Zimbabwean Doctors and nurses?
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