What stupid shit has Trump done today?

[Streathamite]

you seem to have mis-expressed yourself using a classic classist slur is all.

N ot at all, you got me the wrong way round. This wasn't an 'old money' snob thing, more that people from y background (yes, working class) have more of those qualities than someone born 100% into a life of immense privilege, with all the advantages that conferred

 

[killer b]

sure thing.

 

[killer b]

I mean, it's not as if one of the key tropes of Trump's image with liberals is what a clueless nouveau riche thug he is. What's the 'class' he can't buy?

 

[existentialist]

I mean, it's not as if one of the key tropes of Trump's image with liberals is what a clueless nouveau riche thug he is. What's the 'class' he can't buy?

Whatever class he has (or is), there is no doubt that he is completely and utterly lacking in taste.

 

[NoXion]

I wasn't aware of that. That paints a different picture.

You probably weren't aware because his PR people have been hard at work issuing takedown notices to people who host it on YouTube.

 

[Streathamite]

I mean, it's not as if one of the key tropes of Trump's image with liberals is what a clueless nouveau riche thug he is. What's the 'class' he can't buy?

I think we're talking at cross-purposes, I dsidn't mean 'class' in the socio-demographic sense.
e2a; more in terms of human dignity.

 

[killer b]

I think we're talking at cross-purposes, I dsidn't mean 'class' in the socio-demographic sense.

What sense did you mean it in? You were talking about the renovation of a rose garden, and how it was conclusive proof the trumps had none - what kind of class are they displaying here?

 

[two sheds]

this is a surprising opinion for a socialist.

Are you saying that money can buy you class and taste?

I don't think you are, but I don't think Streathamite was saying anything different.

 

[StoneRoad]

class meant in the sense of good style (e2a - or refined), rather than someone who thinks they are upper class as in snob

 

[JimW]

Sort of like natural rhythm?

 

[killer b]

Are you saying that money can buy you class and taste?

Where do you think that idea originates? It's about keeping uppity middle & lower class people who've come into money in their places. Which seems an odd thing for a socialist to be concerned with.

 

[two sheds]

I think the comment could just have well have been made if someone who was long-term establishment had trashed the garden.

 

[killer b]

I think the comment could just have well have been made if someone who was long-term establishment had trashed the garden.

Could've been, but wasn't.

TBH I'm not that interested in a back and forth on this, just wanted to highlight something that's bothered me for a while - the concept of Trump as this tasteless nouveau riche barbarian at the gates has it's roots in age-old snobbery and it should be resisted. His politics are important, the colour of his christmas trees is not.

 

[PTK]

Conclusive proof that all the money in the world can buy you neither class nor taste. They're innate.

This seems similar to the argument that Harry Enfield employed in explaining his "Loads of Money" character. A rough paraphrase of what he said was that these plasterers may be highly paid (for manual workers) but they had no refinement.

 

[Orang Utan]

‘Refinement’ wtf is that

 

[Raheem]

I mean, it's not as if one of the key tropes of Trump's image with liberals is what a clueless nouveau riche thug he is. What's the 'class' he can't buy?

He's best known for paying not to have to attend the class.

 

[PTK]

‘Refinement’ wtf is that

Someone like Harry Enfield would define it as preferring certain forms of culture.

 

[Streathamite]

Could've been, but wasn't.

TBH I'm not that interested in a back and forth on this, just wanted to highlight something that's bothered me for a while - the concept of Trump as this tasteless nouveau riche barbarian at the gates has it's roots in age-old snobbery and it should be resisted. His politics are important, the colour of his christmas trees is not.

ermm, the whole point about Trump is that he is very much not nouveau riche!

Are you saying that money can buy you class and taste?

I don't think you are, but I don't think Streathamite was saying anything different.

precisely. Taste, grace and dignity.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I was referring to kinda human qualities that transcend economic advantage. Most of the miners I worked with during the miners strike had far, far more class (and taste) than Trump will ever have. Ditto, the comrades on all those anti-austerity campaigns

One of the things that I see in the rose garden design is evidence that the US is slipping into a more authoritarian period. This is often reflected in culture. If you look at authoritarian regimes there's often a marked change the art and design. It becomes more mundane, stiff, and formal. It becomes less free-form and more rule-based. There's also an emergence of themes of "onward and upward", glorification of the worker or soldier, glorification of traditional gender roles for women, etc. I learned all of this in art school so that's probably why I noticed it. As a librarian in training I've noticed something else. During periods of relative freedom, the number of libraries tends to increase. As a country devolves into authoritarianism, the number of libraries tends to decrease. (The number of libraries in the US has started to slowly, but steadily decline.) Yes, noting a design for a garden is an unimportant thing but such changes tend to point toward other cultural changes that are going on.

 

[a_chap]

One of the things that I see in the rose garden design is evidence that the US is slipping into a more authoritarian period

You've noticed that the US is slipping into a more authoritarian period.

Based on what's happened to the Rose Garden.

I'm relieved to hear there's no other evidence of the US slipping into a more authoritarian period.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

You've noticed that the US is slipping into a more authoritarian period.

Based on what's happened to the Rose Garden.

I'm relieved to hear there's no other evidence of the US is slipping into a more authoritarian period.

I know right.

(thanks, a_chap, I needed a good laugh at my own expense today.)

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

adrenochrome obviously

I had to look this up. It looks like the new version of blood libel.

 

[killer b]

ermm, the whole point about Trump is that he is very much not nouveau riche!

it's not, the whole point about trump (or one of them anyway) is that he's some vulgar new money fuck with no class or taste. Haven't you been paying attention?

 

[two sheds]

You've noticed that the US is slipping into a more authoritarian period.

Based on what's happened to the Rose Garden.

I'm relieved to hear there's no other evidence of the US is slipping into a more authoritarian period.

And what about all the unpersuaded interior designers out there.

 

[Streathamite]

it's not, the whole point about trump (or one of them anyway) is that he's some vulgar new money fuck with no class or taste. Haven't you been paying attention?

It's not the whole point, not even close, and the people who've been implying what you say aren't in any way connected with the left. Everybody even remotely left have nailed him for what he is -a longstanding, 'old money' part of the Elite, who is pulling of one of ther greatest con-trick in human history by posing as a Man Of The People. And who, moreover, has terrifying authoritarian contempt for all democratic and legal constraints.

In my comment, I was referring to him as a person without any dignity, grace, taste etc. It isn't down to the snobbery of some educated metropolitan elite. The people who you seem to think have been doing this sort of mythical sneering, if anything, are traditional Republicans, and Clintonians. In other words. Zero 'left'.

You really have got this so spectacularly arse-about-face on my original comment, it's quite surreal.

 

[campanula]

White House Rose Garden before Trump vs. White House Rose Garden After Trump

Based on what's happened to the Rose Garden.

Get a grip, folks. This is not any sort of useful memetic comparison. The first picture, of a flowering crab and a border full of tulips represents about 3 weeks of a gardens lifecycle (and nothing, that I can see to follow on apart from a rather dull shrub). Cannot really be held up as any definitive sign of anything, since I have no idea when the second pic was unveiled but it also represents a teeny amount of time (and space). Gardens are a process, not an event and resist comparisons based on singular images.
Absolutely no need to sully horticulture with tawdry political shittery (although I realise capitalism has it's filthy fingers in everything...including many of the wholly ridiculous conceits of garden design).

 

[Dogsauce]

Could've been, but wasn't.

TBH I'm not that interested in a back and forth on this, just wanted to highlight something that's bothered me for a while - the concept of Trump as this tasteless nouveau riche barbarian at the gates has it's roots in age-old snobbery and it should be resisted. His politics are important, the colour of his christmas trees is not.

see also sneering pricks who go on about him having ketchup on steak. It doesn’t fucking matter. Putting children in cages matters, yes. An ‘unsophisticated diet’ so what.

 

[Raheem]

Tbh, I find it hard to criticise anyone for looking down on Trump. I look down on him, and I've never had the money to pay off even a single porn actress.

 

[Orang Utan]

Trump is a nasty Lassard

 

[Streathamite]

see also sneering pricks who go on about him having ketchup on steak. It doesn’t fucking matter. Putting children in cages matters, yes. An ‘unsophisticated diet’ so what.

well, yes, agreed. I wans't looking down on him, more criticising 'the content of his character' (to borrow from MLK)