Was the Leave campaign racist?

[butchersapron]

Fantastic, everyone wants the racist vote. I don't really find that very reassuring. I think the leave campaign were a bit more successful getting the message out though.

The racist message?

 

[two sheds]

If i thought that, i reckon i'd have said that.

If you'd have meant "some of their posts" I'd have thought you would have said that, too.

cf. the statement "Leaver voters are racist". If someone said that here they'd get rightly pulled up on it but that's different from "Some leaver voters are racist"

 

[two sheds]

Fantastic, everyone wants the racist vote. I don't really find that very reassuring. I think the leave campaign were a bit more successful getting the message out though.

Welcome to urban

I think you did misunderstand butchersapron by the way - I didn't really follow the conversation but what you're accusing him of is not the sort of thing that he would believe.

 

[butchersapron]

If you'd have meant "some of their posts" I'd have thought you would have said that, too.

cf. the statement "Leaver voters are racist". If someone said that here they'd get rightly pulled up on it but that's different from "Some leaver voters are racist"

What did i say instead?

 

[two sheds]

In response to

You feel that someone supporting friends/relatives after racist abuse has nothing worthwhile to offer Pickers?

Their posts may not have.

Are you agreeing with Pickman's that Anju's posts have nothing to offer, then?

 

[Anju]

Welcome to urban

I think you did misunderstand butchersapron by the way - I didn't really follow the conversation but what you're accusing him of is not the sort of thing that he would believe.

Thanks, I have been here a long time but not a prolific poster.

The reason I developed my view on him was because he became very upset when I criticised the post match attitude of the England team when they lost,. said an article which said, among other things that racism is down to people feeling disenfranchised summed up the leave argument, stated that all the Polish people in his area could take care of themselves and then called for practical help for his local Polish centre but put in brackets (if you know what I mean) which to me suggests violent counter action.

 

[butchersapron]

In response to



Are you agreeing with Pickman's that Anju's posts have nothing to offer, then?

They're pretty shit. Something to offer? To who? Not me.

 

[emanymton]

Here's a lovely section of a pro remain leaflet I got through from the European Movement

Never has Fortress Europe succinctly describe.

Now are you sure all racist voted leave?

Fucks sake that's appalling! All EU migrants are just here to wait on tables. And non-EU ones all entered illegally in the back of a waggon.

 

[Anju]

They're pretty shit. Something to offer? To who? Not me.

So you don't think we should learn from this campaign that it needs to be made clear that racism is not acceptable? Like I said I could not find a single post where someone was arguing that the leave campaign should distance itself from racist rhetoric. People knew that there would be votes that were cast based on a racist agenda and are therefore complicit in what is now happening and will continue to happen. If you are racist you will now think there are 17 million other racists..

 

[butchersapron]

So you don't think we should learn from this campaign that it needs to be made clear that racism is not acceptable? Like I said I could not find a single post where someone was arguing that the leave campaign should distance itself from racist rhetoric. People knew that there would be votes that were cast based on a racist agenda and are therefore complicit in what is now happening and will continue to happen. If you are racist you will now think there are 17 million other racists..

Then you have no business starting this thread.

 

[Orang Utan]

anju
leave campaign <> leave voters

 

[NoXion]

So you don't think we should learn from this campaign that it needs to be made clear that racism is not acceptable? Like I said I could not find a single post where someone was arguing that the leave campaign should distance itself from racist rhetoric. People knew that there would be votes that were cast based on a racist agenda and are therefore complicit in what is now happening and will continue to happen. If you are racist you will now think there are 17 million other racists..

Racists are going to seek validation from wherever they possibly can. If Remain had won, well that would have just "proven" that the "campaign of white genocide" is coming along nicely.

 

[Pickman's model]

On that basis no fucker would post on here.

And the bit from "less valuable .." is not what you said.

Context is everything and being as we'd just gone round in a couple of circles I thought it was clear what I was talking about. I am sorry you don't seem to have found it so.

 

[two sheds]

Context is everything and being as we'd just gone round in a couple of circles I thought it was clear what I was talking about. I am sorry you don't seem to have found it so.

That's ok I forgive you this time

 

[Anju]

anju
leave campaign <> leave voters

I realise that. There was a little criticism of Farrage but no desire to distance the campaign itself from racist rhetoric. People have voted with no thought for what would happen. To me it feels like well intentioned voters just assumed the outcome of a leave vote would bring a left wing government by default.

 

[Skyfallsz]

Thanks, least insulting insult of the day.

It is difficult to keep up when there are so many pointless insulting posts.

I managed to express my view a little more clearly in a post a moment ago. My issue is that the leave campaign were happy to use a racist agenda in the media. There was little or no resistance to this, apart from that poster from Farrage. Rather than fight racism they embraced it simply to win votes.

I also find it hard to believe that people didn't think about what would happen once the vote was over. Worse governments, racial tension, inability of our politicians to negotiate beneficial trade deals.

I didn't mean to insult you. I completely agree with you that the Leave campaign has been characterised by populism more than anything else, the people attacking you are not recognising that. It doesn't fill me with hope that there are left wing arguments for the Leave vote when they aren't being heard outside of left wing discussions.
The Iraq war and the 2008 financial crash also presented clear examples of capitalism failing and the left actually having a load of cogent arguments, why this crisis is any different hasn't been explained

 

[Pickman's model]

I didn't mean to insult you. I completely agree with you that the Leave campaign has been characterised by populism more than anything else, the people attacking you are not recognising that. It doesn't fill me with hope that there are left wing arguments for the Leave vote when they aren't being heard outside of left wing discussions.
The Iraq war and the 2008 financial crash also presented clear examples of capitalism failing and the left actually having a load of cogent arguments, why this crisis is any different hasn't been explained

Why is this an example of capitalism failing?

 

[editor]

 

[Pickman's model]

Welcome to urban

Anju has been with us for fourteen years

 

[Anju]

Great isn't it. No longer just the threat of hard core facist racist attacks, now people will have to endure casual racist slurs from newly empowered racists.

 

[Skyfallsz]

Why is this an example of capitalism failing?

Because the EU one of the big capitalist institutions and something important happened that it did not anticipate or have an answer for at all. I don't mean that Capitalism failed as a concept, but it was a failure for the ruling order, which is capitalist
The reason that I'm not happy is the same one as Anju I think, this was not a positive victory of socialism, this was just the system failing again. Like if my computer breaks, I don't think that this is a positive step in the fight against the monopolies like Google and Apple

 

[Orang Utan]

I realise that. There was a little criticism of Farrage but no desire to distance the campaign itself from racist rhetoric. People have voted with no thought for what would happen. To me it feels like well intentioned voters just assumed the outcome of a leave vote would bring a left wing government by default.

fine, but you seem to be under the misapprehension that posters on here who voted Remain were swayed by the rhetoric of the Remain campaign based on a search about whether there was a thread about distancing ourselves from racist campaigning. there are many threads on here and the posters you're at odds with here have posted their non-racist reasoning for voting Leave and their contempt for racist rhetoric is clear. There wasn't a thread on it, because it's kind of a given that people on here don't think that way and don't tolerate those who do.

 

[butchersapron]

fine, but you seem to be under the misapprehension that posters on here who voted Remain were swayed by the rhetoric of the Remain campaign based on a search about whether there was a thread about distancing ourselves from racist campaigning. there are many threads on here and the posters you're at odds with here have posted their non-racist reasoning for voting Leave and their contempt for racist rhetoric is clear. There wasn't a thread on it, because it's kind of a given that people on here don't think that way and don't tolerate those who do.

Simple

 

[two sheds]

Anju has been with us for fourteen years

We can't welcome a long-time lurker who's started posting?

 

[butchersapron]

We can't welcome a long-time lurker who's started posting?

You can, if they post smearing shit i'd rather they didn't.

 

[Pickman's model]

Because the EU one of the big capitalist institutions and something important happened that it did not anticipate or have an answer for at all. I don't mean that Capitalism failed as a concept, but it was a failure for the ruling order, which is capitalist
The reason that I'm not happy is the same one as Anju I think, this was not a positive victory of socialism, this was just the system failing again. Like if my computer breaks, I don't think that this is a positive step in the fight against the monopolies like Google and Apple

So you don't in fact mean this was a failure in the mode of production but a failure of imagination in the councils of the European Union.

 

[Pickman's model]

We can't welcome a long-time lurker who's started posting?

Why didn't you welcome Anju e.g. in March on the work frustration or pirate radio threads?

 

[editor]

You can, if they post smearing shit i'd rather they didn't.

One man's 'shit' is another man's, err, something or another. But I'd rather have a wide range of opinions argued here because we all know what happens to boards that boot out/bully off all dissenting voices.

 

[two sheds]

Why didn't you welcome Anju e.g. in March on the work frustration or pirate radio threads?

Because I didn't see him on those

 

[butchersapron]

One man's 'shit' is another man's, err, something or another. But I'd rather have a wide range of opinions argued here because we all know what happens to boards that boot out/bully off all dissenting voices.

Me too. Calling me a violent racist misogynist because i'm involved in helping immigrant groups deal with recent attacks on them, not so much.