Was the Leave campaign racist?

[Anju]

Not sure how you can say children drowning in the med or being trafficked in Turkey is a potential downside.

What do you think will happen now?

 

[Pickman's model]

What do you think will happen now?

I think you're going to carry on insisting all leave voters are racist or enabling racism despite the support for racism implicit in your own position.

 

[NoXion]

I am not calling all those people racist. Am am saying they are enabling racism.

They enable themselves. Racists have agency too!

 

[smokedout]

Might as well stick this here. The famous anti-racist David Cameron and the EU had agreed to a deal that would have smashed up both in and out of work benefits for EU migrants, probaly resulting in many people having to return to their country of origin in the event of a Remain vote. That's now off the cards due to Brexit: Brexit vote forces Cameron into EU benefits U-turn

 

[Anju]

That's only because of the hysteria that's errupted over this. In a stable economy, us leaving the EU would have had no effect on the pound, or any other global market. There is no real reason for all this austerity. It's just misdirection and lies.

And no, the Leave voters are not a bunch of racists. To label us/them as such is just stupid. It may well have made the racists be a bit louder for a bit, but they'll soon scuttle off under the stones they came from once they see that leaving the EU will bring more immigration.

But we did not have a stable economy, unless you are Osborne.

What will happen when all the anti immigration people realise they are not getting what they want? I don't think they will be using the ballot box to air their grievances. And treating an increase in racism as an OK trade of is not really acceptable.

 

[Anju]

I think you're going to carry on insisting all leave voters are racist or enabling racism despite the support for racism implicit in your own position.

Not the most subtle way of avoiding a question about the reality of what we are doing at the moment and over the next few years

 

[Pickman's model]

But we did not have a stable economy, unless you are Osborne.

xes didn't say we had a stable economy

 

[xes]

But we did not have a stable economy, unless you are Osborne.

Exactly. It's nothing to do with leaving the EU. And who is treating racism as an OK trade off? You're delusional and just repeating media hype. There will always be racists becasue some people are cunts. That's not a trade off, it's a fact. A sad fact, but a fact.

 

[Pickman's model]

Not the most subtle way of avoiding a question about the reality of what we are doing at the moment and over the next few years

Yeh. But it's what I think is going to happen right here right now. You want to know what I think will happen in the future, ask me what I think will happen in the future.

 

[weltweit]

What was it that Will Self said: Not all those who voted leave are racists but all racists voted leave.

 

[Anju]

xes didn't say we had a stable economy

He did and has posted as such.

 

[Anju]

Yeh. But it's what I think is going to happen right here right now. You want to know what I think will happen in the future, ask me what I think will happen in the future.

Pedantic?

 

[wheelie_bin]

I am not calling all those people racist. Am am saying they are enabling racism.

Your words at the beginning are: "Leave voters... You knew you were colluding with racists".
Collusion means conspiring, plotting, actively supporting. You are typing over emotionally without thinking or you are being disingenuous about how utterly and abhorrently offensive a thing this is to say.

Calm down for just a moment, think about 52% of the people you know. You are simply wrong to denigrate so many people without cause. Say what you like about Farage, say what you like about the ugly fascist groups and people actually being racist because that is justified and they deserve our hate. Your attack on all leave voters here however is not justified.

 

[Pickman's model]

He did and has posted as such.

No, he didn't:

That's only because of the hysteria that's errupted over this. In a stable economy, us leaving the EU would have had no effect on the pound, or any other global market. There is no real reason for all this austerity. It's just misdirection and lies.

 

[xes]

He did and has posted as such.

um, no I didn't. re-read it.

 

[Wookey]

I keep seeing people say this but it is the policies of our government that have done this to the country. Are there any EU laws which forced austerity measures, stopped imposition of a proper living wage?

Can't quite believe you've asked that question!

Here is an EU report into the effects of institutionalised austerity pressures from the EU, on 7 member countries. It details the harm done to job chances, education, health care, the right to work, the right to a pension, access to justice....I dare you to read it all!

http://statewatch.org/news/2015/mar/ep-study-cris-fr.pdf

You are of course aware that the EU overturned the democratic will of the Greek people, to persue their austerity agenda?

 

[Pickman's model]

Pedantic?

By no means. I answered the question you asked, I find it very difficult to answer questions you think you've asked but haven't.

 

[Anju]

No, he didn't:

Fair enough.

 

[Anju]

Can't quite believe you've asked that question!

Here is an EU report into the effects of institutionalised austerity pressures from the EU, on 7 member countries. It details the harm done to job chances, education, health care, the right to work, the right to a pension, access to justice....I dare you to read it all!

http://statewatch.org/news/2015/mar/ep-study-cris-fr.pdf

You are of course aware that the EU overturned the democratic will of the Greek people, to persue their austerity agenda?

Thanks,. I will have a read later.

Yes I know what they did to Greece.

 

[smokedout]

Can't quite believe you've asked that question!

Here is an EU report into the effects of institutionalised austerity pressures from the EU, on 7 member countries. It details the harm done to job chances, education, health care, the right to work, the right to a pension, access to justice....I dare you to read it all!

http://statewatch.org/news/2015/mar/ep-study-cris-fr.pdf

You are of course aware that the EU overturned the democratic will of the Greek people, to persue their austerity agenda?

I believe the contemporary anti-racist position is fuck the Greeks

 

[Wookey]

I believe the contemporary anti-racist position is fuck the Greeks

Yes, it would appear so!

 

[Pickman's model]

Fair enough.

Do you think maybe you might have misread other things as well, and acted unfairly towards people based on those misreading?

 

[wheelie_bin]

I believe the contemporary anti-racist position is fuck the Greeks

And the Portuguese, must fuck up the Portuguese

 

[Pickman's model]

And the Portuguese, must fuck up the Portuguese

Not to mention the italians

 

[butchersapron]

The stick they're holding above the heads of the spanish don't look too friendly either.

 

[wheelie_bin]

And the stated position on the UK is that they'll try to fuck with us too for having the temerity to try to leave. Even if that includes fucking up jobs for the Germans, the Dutch...

 

[xes]

And the stated position on the UK is that they'll try to fuck with us too for having the temerity to try to leave. Even if that includes fucking up jobs for the Germans, the Dutch...

There are a fuck load of toys being thrown out of a fuck load of prams

 

[Pickman's model]

There are a fuck load of toys being thrown out of a fuck load of prams

Who'd have thought the pram could hold so many toys without smothering the child?

 

[Ole]

I keep seeing people say this but it is the policies of our government that have done this to the country. Are there any EU laws which forced austerity measures, stopped imposition of a proper living wage?

Yes - in other countries. In the most horrific, eye-watering manner.

Another question Remainers should be asking themselves is what did the EU do to stop austerity measures in this country? They actually benefited as it bolstered their justification of their own monstrous 'shock therapy'.

 

[Anju]

So, we have established that the real world is actually not perfect, that it is OK to be on the same side as openly xenophobic people if we benefit and that as long as we vote based entirely on our personal political views good stuff will just happen. No need to try and be practical and get the best result for everyone.

The same capacity for denial that allowed people to side with Farrage seems to be working for those that can't see Boris as PM, millions of disaffected bigots, more austerity, trade deals made in desperation and a potential lack of viable opposition.

If anyone has an alternative vision I would love to hear it?

Oh, and this is still true

If you support a cause, and your instinctive response to widespread complaints that many within that cause are circulating racistideas is not, 'We'd better get those racist ideas and the people who hold them the hell away from our cause, or they'll make us look like a bunch of racists,' but, 'Stop trying to undermine our good and just cause with your spurious accusations; we'll tell you what isand isn't racist'... you are an apologist for racism.