Was the Leave campaign racist?

[Anju]

Most extreme right mainstream party See, this is why people tell you to fuck off.

Because I am not a politics graduate and might use the wrong terminology. Is it only officially sanctioned views allowed?

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Anyone who did not see what is about to come must be a little disconnected from reality. I still see nobody here has come up with an answer to what will happen next?

What will happen next is same old same old. The bottom of the heap will continue to be blamed and trodden on by those on higher rungs.

 

[Anju]

That's right. So do it. What do you find?

I don't have time for your smug mysterious question so tell me

 

[xes]

Because I am not a politics graduate and might use the wrong terminology. Is it only officially sanctioned views allowed?

It's not your terminology, it's your utter refusal to stop lumping leave voters with UKIP and or racism. There were fucking loads of other reasons to vote leave. But you're just holding on to that bone and you're not letting go.

 

[butchersapron]

I don't have time for your smug mysterious question so tell me

You make a blisteringly stupid post that gets chronology wrong and ask me to to tell you chronology is important? Star.

 

[Anju]

You make a blisteringly stupid post that gets chronology wrong and ask me to to tell you chronology is important? Star.

Which post would be helpful

 

[butchersapron]

Which post would be helpful

Sure.

 

[Skyfallsz]

I think Anju is arguing that the election should have been about austerity rather than letting UKIP and Johnson hijack it for their own slightly twisted agendas. No offence to Anju, they aren't arguing it very well, but I think people are jumping on him/her a bit

Although there is a strong case for Leave as taking an opportunity to leave what is a very shaky capitalist superstate, this message has not been out these during or in the aftermath of the referendum. If 'Anju' doesn't understand this, and they are a member of a geeky BBS with a lot of focus on left wing politics, what makes you think that this message is reaching people who don't read BBS.
We can see that Nigel Farage manages to get his message across and he gets to piss in the water supply, but the left aren't visible at all on this side of the argument

 

[Anju]

It's not your terminology, it's your utter refusal to stop lumping leave voters with UKIP and or racism. There were fucking loads of other reasons to vote leave. But you're just holding on to that bone and you're not letting go.

What I am saying is that by not addressing the issue of racism and distancing the campaign to leave from it racism has been made more acceptable. You may believe that people voted for good reasons because that is why you voted. The nasty racist voters will believe that you voted for the same reason as them. Even if only a million card carrying racist voted leave. They now think there are 17 million of them. This is why there needed to be a campaign to make it clear that this was not the case. My view is that many people did not do this as their desire to win was greater than their urge to do the right thing.

 

[Anju]

Reread your post

You say a) anyone who doesn't see what's about to happen must be a little disconnected from reality;
b) No one has come up with an answer to what happens next.
So we're all disconnected from reality then. Share with us, oh mighty prophet, what we may expect.

I already have several times

 

[Pickman's model]

I already have several times

Yeh yeh so why'd you ask a question you've already answered?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

What was it that Will Self said: Not all those who voted leave are racists but all racists voted leave.

Not all voters were leavists but all leavists were voters. Were you a voter? If so you must be a racist too. QED!

 

[wheelie_bin]

What I am saying is that by not addressing the issue of racism and distancing the campaign to leave from it racism has been made more acceptable. You may believe that people voted for good reasons because that is why you voted. The nasty racist voters will believe that you voted for the same reason as them. Even if only a million card carrying racist voted leave. They now think there are 17 million of them. This is why there needed to be a campaign to make it clear that this was not the case. My view is that many people did not do this as their desire to win was greater than their urge to do the right thing.

How would you expect ordinary voters to have done this apart from speaking with their friends and neighbours? Labour did not provide sufficient senior people and support to mount an effective Leave campaign. One might suggest that the media enjoyed making the focus Farage and immigration because they were largely pro remain and felt this would drive voters away from the leave campaign. None of that is the fault of individual voters who just wanted to exit the EU.

 

[Anju]

I think Anju is arguing that the election should have been about austerity rather than letting UKIP and Johnson hijack it for their own slightly twisted agendas. No offence to Anju, they aren't arguing it very well, but I think people are jumping on him/her a bit

Although there is a strong case for Leave as taking an opportunity to leave what is a very shaky capitalist superstate, this message has not been out these during or in the aftermath of the referendum. If 'Anju' doesn't understand this, and they are a member of a geeky BBS with a lot of focus on left wing politics, what makes you think that this message is reaching people who don't read BBS.
We can see that Nigel Farage manages to get his message across and he gets to piss in the water supply, but the left aren't visible at all on this side of the argument

Thanks, least insulting insult of the day.

It is difficult to keep up when there are so many pointless insulting posts.

I managed to express my view a little more clearly in a post a moment ago. My issue is that the leave campaign were happy to use a racist agenda in the media. There was little or no resistance to this, apart from that poster from Farrage. Rather than fight racism they embraced it simply to win votes.

I also find it hard to believe that people didn't think about what would happen once the vote was over. Worse governments, racial tension, inability of our politicians to negotiate beneficial trade deals.

 

[xes]

What I am saying is that by not addressing the issue of racism and distancing the campaign to leave from it racism has been made more acceptable. You may believe that people voted for good reasons because that is why you voted. The nasty racist voters will believe that you voted for the same reason as them. Even if only a million card carrying racist voted leave. They now think there are 17 million of them. This is why there needed to be a campaign to make it clear that this was not the case. My view is that many people did not do this as their desire to win was greater than their urge to do the right thing.

racist people have always been deluded, this changes nothing. And no, racism has not become more accpetable. Not at all.

And you want some distance between the racists and the non racist leave voters, then lumping us all together is about as counterproductive as you could possibly be on the matter. You are making yourself a part of that problem, by spouting it as if it is a fact that leave voters are racist, or at least racist sympathisers. You're just adding more fuel to the fire.

 

[Anju]

Yeh yeh so why'd you ask a question you've already answered?

Because you asked.

Any idea what will happen next?

 

[Pickman's model]

Because you asked.

Any idea what will happen next?

Yes, we'll go through a similar rigmarole again because you have nothing worthwhile to offer.

 

[two sheds]

Yes, we'll go through a similar rigmarole again because you have nothing worthwhile to offer.

You feel that someone supporting friends/relatives after racist abuse has nothing worthwhile to offer Pickers?

 

[butchersapron]

You feel that someone supporting friends/relatives after racist abuse has nothing worthwhile to offer Pickers?

Their posts may not have.

 

[Anju]

I have no idea how some of you spend so much time on here.

Anyway, I have tried to give sensible answers but most people seem disinclined to do the same.

My prediction for the next few months is Boris as PM, no election, increasing racial tension, economy slows, austerity extra announced. That was my pre vote perception if leave were to win.

Worst case scenario is Trump and Boris in power.

I am sorry if some leave people were offended at being labeled racism apologists. There was no brake put on the use of immigration as a vote winner and no public outcry. I have had a search on here and I cannot find a post suggesting distancing the leave campaign from racist rhetoric, only some criticising the rhetoric itself. It. It would actually restore my faith in people a little if there were some. Does anyone who has been claiming i am wrong made one themselves. That would make me a little less cynical about your sincerity in opposing racism.

 

[Pickman's model]

You feel that someone supporting friends/relatives after racist abuse has nothing worthwhile to offer Pickers?

Not on the subject of this thread. While I deplore what happened to anju's daughter and grandchild, repeated misreadings and dishing out accusations on the basis of misunderstandings - added to which an almost complete refusal to admit anything has been misunderstood - make anju's contributions less valuable than he, I or you would desire.

 

[butchersapron]

I am sorry if some leave people were offended at being labeled racism apologists

 

[Anju]

Oh yes, if you have a more cheerful take on the future I would still like to hear it.

 

[captainmission]

Here's a lovely section of a pro remain leaflet I got through from the European Movement

Never has Fortress Europe succinctly describe.

Now are you sure all racist voted leave?

 

[sealion]

So, we have established that the real world is actually not perfect, that it is OK to be on the same side as openly xenophobic people if we benefit and that as long as we vote based entirely on our personal political views good stuff will just happen. No need to try and be practical and get the best result for everyone.

The same capacity for denial that allowed people to side with Farrage seems to be working for those that can't see Boris as PM, millions of disaffected bigots, more austerity, trade deals made in desperation and a potential lack of viable opposition.

If anyone has an alternative vision I would love to hear it?

Oh, and this is still true

If you support a cause, and your instinctive response to widespread complaints that many within that cause are circulating racistideas is not, 'We'd better get those racist ideas and the people who hold them the hell away from our cause, or they'll make us look like a bunch of racists,' but, 'Stop trying to undermine our good and just cause with your spurious accusations; we'll tell you what isand isn't racist'... you are an apologist for racism.

Drink.

 

[two sheds]

Their posts may not have.

None of them?

 

[butchersapron]

Drink.

Only explanation.

 

[butchersapron]

None of them?

If i thought that, i reckon i'd have said that.

 

[two sheds]

Not on the subject of this thread. While I deplore what happened to anju's daughter and grandchild, repeated misreadings and dishing out accusations on the basis of misunderstandings - added to which an almost complete refusal to admit anything has been misunderstood - make anju's contributions less valuable than he, I or you would desire.

On that basis no fucker would post on here.

And the bit from "less valuable .." is not what you said.

 

[Anju]

Here's a lovely section of a pro remain leaflet I got through from the European Movement

Never has Fortress Europe succinctly describe.

Now are you sure all racist voted leave?

Fantastic, everyone wants the racist vote. I don't really find that very reassuring. I think the leave campaign were a bit more successful getting the message out though.