Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
No, it shows I'm not taking you seriously
This type of incoherent rambling is why I don't.
Cost of Living Crisis: Enough is Enough Campaign
- Thread starter Smokeandsteam
- Start date
No, it shows I'm not taking you seriously
This type of incoherent rambling is why I don't.
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
Shame you didn't take brexit seriously given you've put in place the worst government we've ever seen.
You're a loony glitchhiker. A raging fucking loony
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
I'm tempted to respond by pointing out that it was remainers - like you - who forced Corbyn to abandon Labour's previously serious position and go into a GE with a policy of negotiating a withdrawal agreement and then campaigning against their own agreement in a second ref. It was remainers who ensured only the tories went in to the last election promising to enact the popular vote. It was remainers who lost Labour over 5 million votes in the 'red wall' etc etc.
But, there's no point...
magneze
🎧
This was an interesting read: Brexit isn’t to blame for our current problems; it is still an opportunity | Larry Elliott
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Yes. He’s been consistently excellent on both Brexit and neo-liberal economics.
This is terrible politics. If fascists, racists or little Englanders supported the idea of continued social healthcare (The NHS) do we then take the opposite position so as not to be 'aligned' with them?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
He's certainly right about this; those interests behind the campaigning for Leave always had their eyes on the prize of accelerated supply side 'reforms' to make the Uk economy more "flexible", "responsive" and "competitive".
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
Where is the comparison? The NHS is a social good, Brexit is a proposition built specifically on a campaign of lies perpetrated by racists and fascists and anti working class elites. The NHS isn't. In fact those same people are notoriously anti NHS. There is no comparison here; racist and fascistsare in direct opposition to socialist structures like the NHS, that's one of the reasons to oppose Brexit.
I didn't say it was a comparison. I said it's weird to base your positions on simply being the opposite of those you don't agree with.
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
I didn't force Labour to do anything. I never called on Corbyn to do anything. At that point the vote had happened and Labour had no choice but to respect the outcome. My position is that leaving is the worse option. That is simply borne out by the evidence, regarldess of how some remainers comported themselves.
However you can't put the entirety of the 2019 vote down to brexit alone. Jeremy Corbyn was hated by many for other, spurious, reasons. The result of years of sustained media attacks. It wasn't just brexit, and you imply that no leave voter could ever change their mind. I'm not interestedin patronising the working class by thinking that.
We are worse off, brexit has achieved nothing for the working class and has only compounded our misery at the hands of the people you shared a platform with. Well done fella
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
comparison is implicit in your comment. Those people were and will never support socialist policies.
I'm basing this position on the evidence. Aren't you?
You seriously think that all 'fascists, racists and little Englanders' don't support the idea of social healthcare? You're fucking deluded.
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
does it have to be 100%? Or are we talking more generally? I have no idea, and neither do you, if ALL of them think X or Y. I believe that the majority don't care for it and would rather a private healthcare system. Largely because of the same kind of propaganda that persuaded people to vote against their interests on Brexit.
I should desist engaging. It's like my best mate from childhood pretty much only posts Brexit related stuff on FB. And I bite. The howl of the liberals grates somewhat.
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
Did you not read my post? I gave you my position. I don't intend to repeat it
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
Are you a child? People can't be nuanced in their positions? Either you with me or you're against me? Fucking grow up you twat
hitmouse
policing yellow and opportunity purple
It's literally what you were doing and what I was pointing out! Do you even remember your own words?
Anyway I don't think I'll bother with you any more. Continue raging into the void.
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
I don't need to be gaslighted you fucking loser
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
The reality is that, able to offer an alternative left leave vision to the country, Labour could have won 2017. Instead, the moderate Labour wing undermined both Corbyn and the result of the EU referendum by becoming obsessed with overturning the result. Thats never going to play well with the electorate and sure enough, like it or not, the Tories romped home in 2019 because of that.
It also empowered and unleashed a particular brand of liberal centrism (FBPEs) whom never given much of a shit towards the plight of the working class and their conditions or indeed socialism more generally, and have vocally and reasonably successfully, pushed the narrative that leaving the EU, and not years of neoliberalism, is responsible for where we find ourselves.
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
No indeed you can delude yourself without any assistance from the likes of Magnus McGinty
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
As I said, I don't agree with Labour's position on Brexit. It happened, it was the wrong decision, but they very well couldn't get away with not respecting the outcome.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
And yet here we are; the cranks and headbangers in charge and our economy in the toilet. No one has provided any example of how brexit was the right decision.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Tend to agree with much of that, but the (valid) point made in your second para could also include the brand of nationalism encouraged in our class based on the false narrative that gaining independence from the supra state was the answer to the depredations of 46 years of neoliberal governance.
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