Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Find a capitalist in this case
Cost of Living Crisis: Enough is Enough Campaign
- Thread starter Smokeandsteam
- Start date
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
That seems unlikely given their total control of the political narrative and the media. Starmer's lead won't last as he has nothing to back it up. The Tories have successfully blamed the EU for everything even after leaving. People believe it.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
There's an entire thread on this, why not go and read it, it's the eu's time is up one, soz the eu watch one
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
The tories have total control of the media and the political narrative? There speaks a conspiraloon
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
What a stupid comment. Why not take your tedious passive aggressive bullshit and fuck off.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
It's by no means anywhere near as stupid as yours. The mirror and the guardian leap to mind as non-tory papers while the star's contrast of liz truss with a lettuce was hardly a Tory ploy. And yeh Boris Johnson was so firmly in control of the political narrative this summer. Oh - and dull swearing doesn't persuade
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
Those two papers are barely left wing and their opposition to the Tories seems minimal. The Guardian isn't taken seriously while the tories have much of the media in their back pocket as evidenced by their power over electoral propaganda. Taking my comment literally is stupid: the point is that the Tories have a dominance in the public consciousness that Labour hasn't matched. It's only because of their temporary loss of control under Truss that Labour surged. Starmer wasn't able to make any real headway during the pandemic despite everything he had to work with. People STILL think Boris either did a good job, or deserves a break because the pandemic wasn't his fault.
Was Boris firmly in control of the media narrative? Let's see: he's enjoyed two months off without criticism after being forced to resign. He very nearly came back after Truss failed. It wasn't the corruption, lies, hypocrisy, law breaking, or death count that did for him either, it was standing by Chris Pinscher. Throughout all that the media made excuses for him calling people to get over it (all the above). Meanwhile Jeremy Corbyn was portrayed as the worst human alive during his time as left wing leader. A mild social democrat in actuality.
So yes, there is no guarantee that, in any forthcomoig election, the Tories will lose. Likely, perhaps. But by no means off the table. Waiting, then, for Brexit to bear fruit, whatever that looks like, is a very risky proposition. What will be left of society?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
We've commented at length on a) The way even the most tepid watered-down social democratic notions won't be accepted by the parliamentary labour party, even though they're very popular with the electorate, b) that shammer's main difference with the tories is that he'd like to pursue their policies more efficiently than the current administration, and c) the ineptitude of the guardian.
Yeh it took cp to get rid of bj. But there were before that months where the Tory party was reeling from disclosure after disclosure about covid parties. To say the tories have been in control total or substantial of the political narrative over the past three years is plain wrong - they've gained from a toothless opposition, but even so they've hardly come across well. The corruption and so on you mention wouldn't have come to the fore if they had the grip you suggested.
It's clear that Blair was a dangerous socialist in comparison to shammer's views. And yeh there's no guarantee the tories will lose because sadly for Labour there has to be a period of campaigning before the vote. who wants tory lite when you can have the full fat real thing?
But one thing about brexit from a lw viewpoint was that by fucking shit up the possibility, the opportunity, for something better might emerge. Perhaps that's come and gone with corbyn. Perhaps it's yet to come. But one thing's for sure, that the political effects of brexit haven't finished playing themselves out yet. There's still some more of our roller coaster ride to go yet
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
For fuck's sake, I go on holiday and leave youse lot to your own devices for one bloody weekend and when I come back you've turned the Enough is Enough thread into a Brexit battle re-enactment. I imagine this is how a disappointed teacher feels when they come back and learns the class spent the whole of the substitute teacher's lesson arguing about Brexit, or something.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
EU oversight of what ?
Lots of things can turn any old debate into a Brexit one, but any discussion containing the RMT is like catnip for some.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I always remember the schadenfreude expressed by some remainers that RMT members had lost their jobs at P&O
That's dark as fuck.
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
things like limits on hours worked etc.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
The Working Time Directive you mean?
I know what you meant. QE is a process that happens on the books of the Bank of England. The money created by QE never leaves the central bank's balance sheet. It certainly is not an operation performed by government, though there is an exchange of letters between the Chancellor and Governor of the Bank whenever there is a significant change. And thanks for the links, but I do know exactly how it works - it happens to be my job to know.
As I said, I agree with your main point.
The money ends up in the sterling settlement reserve accounts held by commercial banks at the Bank of England. Those banks in turn credit the accounts of their customers who have sold bonds to the Bank of England. Such customers will have swapped illiquid assets (government bonds) for liquid assets (cash). They may or may not have made a profit on the sale of the bonds.
Hope that helps.
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
It's like if someone started a thread about how there's too many "time's up" threads, and then somehow it got turned into yet another R2D2 vs the world thread arguing about Russia and Ukraine.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Anybody could be forgiven for thinking the Ukraine war, and its possible development into WW3. isn't the most important thing happening in the world. Not to mention a major factor in the cost of livng crisis (see the way the US seems to be edging the Zelensky gang towards being open to negotiations.)
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
8ball
1,200 lights
And on average, is a profit made on the sale of these bonds?
And also, on average, how often are the sellers of these bonds working class, or on Universal Credit, or scraping by on benefits alone?
By ‘ends up’, I wasn’t talking about the computer holding the account that the spoils get typed into.
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Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
By some people, I guess you mean Remain supporters as that certainly wasn’t the argument of the minority of ‘the left’ (really the right wing of the movement embodied by Roy Jenkins) that supported joining the EU and backed remaining it in the first referendum.
The idea - that the EU was some sort of break on neo-liberalism or that it’s a social democratic institution - really belongs in the 1990’s and to a group of trade union leaders and labour MPs defeated by Thatcher and desperately imputing on to the EU wish fulfilment to cover up its own inability to defend the organised working class and the communities they allegedly served.
The fact the the argument prevails 30 years later tells us something about those peddling it, and it also tells us that the entire economic principles on which the bloc is founded has somehow passed by those clinging to the mirage of ‘social Europe’
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To your first question, it depends on the seller's situation. It may be that they are looking to realise a profit, or it may be that they have an immediate need for liquid assets and may therefore be willing to accept a loss. This was not unusual in 2009 when QE first started in the UK.
To your second question, they are almost always institutions such as pension funds, investment funds or overseas investors.
8ball
1,200 lights
Are you an auditor, by any chance?
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
I am not.
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
Maybe one day you'll actually be able to provide a good argument for why we left and how our trade is meant to recover from closing access to a market our economy depends on. In the meantime I'll continue to enjoy being lectured on radical politics by a no mark wannabe who's been fuck wrong this entire time. Have fun
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
You can rage all you like Karl but they are the facts. The only people who believe in the existence of social Europe are John Monks and his generation of failed union tops from the 1990’s and planet remain in 2022.
By the way a) we haven’t closed our market to the EU or vice versa as the withdrawal agreement makes abundantly clear and b) if you think either the long run economic performance of the British economy or the current crisis are related to membership of the EU then you’ve not been following things very closely.
‘No mark wannabe‘: I like it
8ball
1,200 lights
Auditing's loss is urban's... possibly breaking even?
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
What facts? You've aligned yourself with fascists, racists, little Englanders, billionaire anti working class liars and the fucking Kremlin! Calling my response 'rage' shows you aren't even taking your own bullshit seriously.You can rage all you like Karl but they are the facts. The only people who believe in the existence of social Europe are John Monks and his generation of failed union tops from the 1990’s and planet remain in 2022.
By the way a) we haven’t closed our market to the EU or vice versa as the withdrawal agreement makes abundantly clear and b) if you think either the long run economic performance of the British economy or the current crisis are related to membership of the EU then you’ve not been following things very closely.
‘No mark wannabe‘: I like it
Obviously we haven't literally closed our market. That's just pedantry and hyperbole. What we have done is undertaken a massive and long lasting act of self harm. For what? To put the worst of the worst in charge. Well fucking done. This is stupidity, not radical politics
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