Does that validate his position on brexit, which, as we are now seeing, has been proved quite disastrous for the working class?
His position on Brexit was right.
His position was that we should immediately leave on no deal terms if necessary. Is that your position too?
Not all brexits led to this point
So you think yer man's past position should be TopCat's present one. After we've left the eu. Do you not see a flaw in your question?
where did i say that?
Post 603. Dempsey's position WAS ... IS that your position too? Past tense, present tense.
My mistake. What I meant to ask was why are you using the word 'should'? Eddie's position was no deal. I simply asked topcat, who responded by saying Eddie was correct, whether they shared Eddie's position.
I’m guessing that if you state someone’s position is correct, it would be odd to have a different one.
Oftentimes people say things that seem to us unreasonable or incorrect so we seek clarification, hence my question. If that is indeed topcat's position then, as with Dempsey, I vigorously disagree with it as we can see the disastrous effects of leaving. Could we have done things differently? Perhaps, but I'm increasingly of the view, hindsight admittedly, that this was inevitable given who was and is now in charge. YMMV of course.
I don’t see how a bonafide anti-capitalist can have a remain position. It’s a liberal position. And then libs tend to big up the benefits of membership. Protection of workers’ rights is one but I didn’t see the EU stopping the draconian measures the Conservatives brought in.
Actually the Tories are nicking bits of legislation from Europe about minimum staffing levels in key services during industrial action
Countries in Europe
You're arguing at a somewhat abstract or theoretical level. The practical experience of the EU was that the other big players were more social democratic than the UK. As a result we got some protections from there - e.g. minimum holiday which there has already been a threat to scrap. In a way Germany or France leftists would have had stronger arguments to leave the EU in order to rid themselves of the dire effect of the UK. Some people are ideologically pro EU but a lot of the arguments in favour were simply that the tendencies of the UK capitalist class were tempered by it. It's not a great radical argument or a movement-oriented argument but it is a pragmatic argument that recognises that yes, we did get protections from it we wouldn't otherwise have had.
Yet how to push things further leftward when also tempered by it? Yes it could be argued we aren’t anywhere close to that point, but if we’re not actually trying to do things with that as the goal we’ll never get there.
What other choice is there?
Convince a sizeable chunk of the electorate to move to the left. Easy peasy.
EU oversight offers more than the Tories will give us.
The longer game saw the removal of the Tories. I still can't bend my head around Corbynist remainers. Did they not think his mildly social democratic reforms could also be tempered by their beloved EU? It's liberals pretending to be socialists.
More of what tho? The social Europe of years gone by is dead and gone, it's with delors in the grave
how was tory removal facilitated by putting the erg into power?
Scratch a radical...
what laws and conditions that we would be subject to in the EU are worse than what the Tories offer?
Make a stupid noise
The problem here is the immediacy of the question. Social/political change can be like the shifting of tectonic plates. It happens in slow motion.
And in the meantime the economy goes down the pan.
Which the Conservatives will be blamed/punished for and they can no longer hide behind the EU as an excuse like previously.
If you hadn't realised that there is a limit to economic growth by now there's scant hope for you. There's no solution to climate heating if you want to grow the economy. And anyway what has the economy done for workers over the past 15 years?
