Times you thought real change was coming... only to be sadly disappointed

[newme]

I think the last time was probably the massive anti-war march in 2001, a million people from various sides of the the political spectrum coming together to agree on one point. I was still sceptical, but felt bad for being sceptical and held out hope I was wrong. I think a lot of people I know gave up then.



Wondering if you're taking the piss or just missed the I, not III bit...

Definitely missed the 1 not 3 bit, then again I didn't expect to have people here that were hundreds of years old so they could remember that either...

 

[Silas Loom]

Definitely missed the 1 not 3 bit, then again I didn't expect to have people here that were hundreds of years old so they could remember that either...

Leaving aside the ageism and hominincentricity, surely it would have occurred to you that the execution of Charles III had not, in fact, been broadcast with due pomp and ceremony, shrouding the actual axe business with some nice tapestry?

 

[Flavour]

Arab Spring is the biggest one for me. All the austerity protests from 2008 to 2011 too.

In a smaller way, I think the massive protests for the climate in 2019 and the rising star of Greta Thunberg offered some hope but that movement was largely suppressed by the pandemic and has not returned. Not in the same way. The climate protests since then have been less mass-movement.

 

[hitmouse]

Yeah, I think I mostly tend towards the old pessimism of the intellect but suppose another vote for the Arab Spring, or more properly the international wave that included the Arab Spring, Occupy, the movement of the squares in places like Spain, anti-austerity in Greece (remember Syriza lol), printemps erable in Quebec and so on. Dunno if I actually expected anything to change as such but it was good when them Americans burned down that police station the other year as well.

Also Biden could very clearly have done more to protect abortion, you can look at how swiftly and decisively he acts when the question is something like banning railway workers from striking or sending more weapons to Israel to see that. Giving the Manchester Arena attack is a very strange answer as well, the aftermath of that one could so easily have been so much worse than it was.

 

[Cid]

Corbyn, for all his faults. I had friends that never did activism going out leafleting at railway stations and stuff like that. Lots of organising and meme sharing over Facebook. The ‘elite’ learnt a lesson from this and the algorithms got changed to stop it ever happening again. Crowds coming out to hear him campaigning. Nobody would do that for Starmer. It was close, I think people were still angry about Brexit and the Tories sneaking home in 2015 on the back of some dodgy campaign spending.

I'm not entirely sure the algorithm aspect is right. A factor, but one that can be worked around. The rot is much deeper I think. I dunno... See e.g the left conversion thread I suppose.

Corbyn was probably the last for me (though I dunno if I hoped for 'real change' there, just perhaps it seemed possible for there to be a step in that direction). Other than that been a few minor things, Some others have mentioned, some slivers of hope in West-China diplomacy (quashed). But nah. Broadly in line with your final para:

i don’t think we stand a chance now. We’ve had targeted messaging used effectively during Brexit vote and Johnson’s campaign, stuff tuned to appeal to people’s prejudices. With AI there is now an even more powerful tool for adjusting messages to audiences, to push the right buttons. These tools as ever will be most accessible to those with deep pockets, so their interests will always be promoted and come first.

Shit is so dark now I think. Reactionary and defensive, reinforced - as you say - by targeted and repeated messaging... And that defensiveness is so much harder to overcome than the sort of generalised apathy we've had before.

 

[hitmouse]

Also, I suppose this is less a time when I thought change was actually coming and more just one that was needed, but as someone who played a very minor part in the 2000s climate movement, that whole climate camp Kingsnorth etc era, I do sometimes look back and think "hmmm, I really wish we'd actually won that one, I wonder if the Mark Kennedys of the world are proud of everything they did to keep unfettered carbon emissions going at full steam?"

 

[Cid]

Yeah, I think I mostly tend towards the old pessimism of the intellect but suppose another vote for the Arab Spring, or more properly the international wave that included the Arab Spring, Occupy, the movement of the squares in places like Spain, anti-austerity in Greece (remember Syriza lol), printemps erable in Quebec and so on. Dunno if I actually expected anything to change as such but it was good when them Americans burned down that police station the other year as well.

Also Biden could very clearly have done more to protect abortion, you can look at how swiftly and decisively he acts when the question is something like banning railway workers from striking or sending more weapons to Israel to see that. Giving the Manchester Arena attack is a very strange answer as well, the aftermath of that one could so easily have been so much worse than it was.

Kind of agree, but you're not going to see much disagreement from the Republicans on banning striking workers or sending weapons to Israel. Not to excuse Biden mind, think for me this is the axioms of western liberal democracy crumbling; a realisation that structures developed a couple of hundred years ago might actually not be that robust, and can be exploited/reframed etc. While the centre believes they are absolutely fundamental to a stable/just society.

e2a: ahem, though I suppose you can pretty easily point out that Biden was quite willing to circumvent them with the arms shipments.

 

[skyscraper101]

I can't remember much at all that I invested my hopes in being real change, that disappointed me unexpectedly. New Labour were exactly how I imagined. What did people think they were going to do?? Pretty much most things turned into what I imagined they would. Pessimists are rarely disappointed.

 

[Cloo]

Yeah, probably Jeremy Corbyn.

 

[skyscraper101]

Oh wait, I have one.

VAR

Right load of bollocks that turned out to be.

 

[gosub]

Oh wait, I have one.

VAR

Right load of bollocks that turned out to be.

works OK in rugby

 

[skyscraper101]

works OK in rugby

I should clarify I mean in football.

 

[emanymton]

I can't remember much at all that I invested my hopes in being real change, that disappointed me unexpectedly. New Labour were exactly how I imagined. What did people think they were going to do?? Pretty much most things turned into what I imagined they would. Pessimists are rarely disappointed.

This, I'm quite surprised at some of the people had hope in.

 

[Serge Forward]

Sam Cooke's song came out in 1964. Some gains since then, but the bastards are gaining the upper hand in clawing it back.

 

[gosub]

I should clarify I mean in football.

Thought you did. Clock stopped , crowd seeing the footage and a couple of other things i cant remember at mo are why it works in rugby. Football, has added more drama to the acting

 

[skyscraper101]

I mean, it should work. But the way it's set up is all wrong. I wrongly assumed it would operate as near flawlessly as it does in rugby, cricket, tennis, etc. Because why shouldn't it? Anyway, that's for another thread. Big let down though.

 

[RD2003]

I can't remember much at all that I invested my hopes in being real change, that disappointed me unexpectedly. New Labour were exactly how I imagined. What did people think they were going to do?? Pretty much most things turned into what I imagined they would. Pessimists are rarely disappointed.

I lost count of the number of liberal left types I was acquainted with who were convinced that Blair and co., in the early days, were secretly storing up something pretty radical to hit society with when the time was right, and that their telling everybody that they had no intention of undoing 'Thatcherism' was just a smokescreen.

 

[Idris2002]

Perestroika. Not only was there the relief that there wasn't going to be a war after all, there was also the possibility that maybe G. might pull it off, and make Soviet living an attractive model for the rest of the world.

Ah well, nevertheless.

 

[ska invita]

When the internet was invented.

Such a great time of downloading kitten videos, dancing baby, Charlie Bit Me and more.

Over time it's now the most depressing use of humanity.

Everything, everywhere all at once is monitored and posted. Everyone has an opinion, even if it's an uninformed one. Influencers. The rise of hacking, the rise of "likes" for popularity.

Swiping left or right.

People on their own in pubs endlessly doomscrolling Tik Tok on full volume. Pornography accessible to minors. Suicide solutions easily available. Blackmail on massive scale. Ordering a drink in Spoons using" the app". 24 hour monitoring of your location via your phone. Fucking Alexa. Smart fridges. Spam emails. Phishing emails. Emails when you're out of office that you're expected to respond to because if you don't "you're not working hard enough".

Hatred and racial and sexually explicit memes that pass for humour.

I genuinely thought the internet would be amazing. Instead it's made us hate ourselves and the people around us.

I'm sure there are many many more.

I thought the internet would genuinely be great. But the internet is shit.

hmmm yeah i still love the internet though, its amazing

 

[gosub]

hmmm yeah i still love the internet though, its amazing

needs more cats