JimW
支那暗杀团
Fish...barrel...
Urban v's the Commentariat
- Thread starter Belushi
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DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Nick Lowe is making 600 quid a month from Patreon which is nice. He's not commentariat but its nice to know anyway
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
Patreon looks like a real time indicator of where people are in the commentariat hierarchy.
Except you have a commentariat "royalty" too who don't need to dirty their hands with it, because they already earn enough from the Guardian or wherever?
Question - is Laurie Penny's income now more secure than Owen Jones'? She is apparently on £40k a year from Patreon alone by today's exchange rate?
I guess this will depend on her ability to keep her backers happy vs Owen's capacity for pitching his writing to publishers.
Except you have a commentariat "royalty" too who don't need to dirty their hands with it, because they already earn enough from the Guardian or wherever?
Question - is Laurie Penny's income now more secure than Owen Jones'? She is apparently on £40k a year from Patreon alone by today's exchange rate?
I guess this will depend on her ability to keep her backers happy vs Owen's capacity for pitching his writing to publishers.
hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
wonder what the tax implications of this are - somewhere between income from a trade & a gift 
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
presumably closer to self employment than anything else- if you commission a piece from a writer or an artist you pay them the asking and the tax arrangement are between the artist/writer and her majesties taxmen.wonder what the tax implications of this are - somewhere between income from a trade & a gift
BigTom
Well-Known Member
wonder what the tax implications of this are - somewhere between income from a trade & a gift
exactly as DC says, they will all be self-employed and it will count as income for tax purposes. No way this is a gift and income from a trade counts as income, you are selling a product/service.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Patreon is bog standard for anyone who creates content and doesn't have a regular job doing it. It's used by basically every artist I know, including loads of comic artists; also small game devs, writers, and people who don't have an easily-identifiable/marketable term. It's a way of doing multimedia publishing and getting money for it.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
She's not part of the commentaries but cayleigh elise on you tube is supported through patreon for her content, which is well researched and factual, she focuses on the cases of missing people and unsolved murders to help raise their profile, hoping for progress and new leads. Last time I looked she gets around $2500 from 1100 subscribers, she doesn't offer perks or different packages, but she is sincere in her appreciation of those who support her, even if that's just watching her videos.
Interestingly molly crabapple is only supporting others on patreon, she's not asking for money.
Interestingly molly crabapple is only supporting others on patreon, she's not asking for money.
I think everyone is aware of what patreon is and how widespread it's use is now - what I wonder is, what effect does this kind of direct patronage have on a writer's work, and journalism in general?
I've mentioned elsewhere that there has been a noticable drop in the number of articles Laurie Penny has published in the press in the last year or so, in my view because she now has a stable income from her Patreon (and also that she is kept busy creating exclusive content for her patrons). Penny has been much more successful than most writers in leveraging her profile in this way, and frankly we're all better off without seeing her articles everywhere, but I reckon it could be having a more subtle dampening effect across the industry as more and more writers' work disappears behind personal paywalls.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
Exactly - it's an understandable trend as print media dries up and there is presumably less paid work around for writers too?
I think with LP there is also a move towards trying to create fiction because you can spend time doing that and still be paid by your patrons. For this you can give them the odd snippet of your work in progress to keep them happy. Then ideally you can also be paid for a book deal if it's any good.
I think with LP there is also a move towards trying to create fiction because you can spend time doing that and still be paid by your patrons. For this you can give them the odd snippet of your work in progress to keep them happy. Then ideally you can also be paid for a book deal if it's any good.
newbie
undisambiguated
What tax jurisdiction does it arise in?
BigTom
Well-Known Member
I'm not a tax lawyer. I imagine you could use this to weasel your way out of paying taxes but generally it would arise in the jurisdiction the person is registered to pay tax in. It never made any difference to me when I was self employed if I was being paid in £ by British people, € by Europeans or $ by Americans, it's all taxable income in the UK.
newbie
undisambiguated
Nor am I but I can't see any reason in principle why a writer shouldn't open an account in the Caymans or Isle of Man or somewhere, pay the Patreon money into it and then read up on how to launder it. To assume they're all honest would be a bit of a stretch. The Patreon page on tax is very US centric, and doesn't mention anything about not dealing with tax havens.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
This tax stuff is boring and not exactly relevant to the thread unless I have missed something?
Tax Form Information | Patreon
Tax Form Information | Patreon
newbie
undisambiguated
I agree it's not exactly core, just a passing thought.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Think of it as a classical workers mutal benefit society for those already in little need of it. With a a little bit of celeb fairy dust sprinkled on top. The ones we're talking about anyway.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
The issue is that you need a shit-tonne of social capital to make this work. This is how the hierarchy pans out with Laurie Penny making a go of it at the top and Sam Ambreen with one patron at the bottom.
The same is true of crowd-funding stuff.
The same is true of crowd-funding stuff.
krink
I'll do it this afternoon
Ah, I see. But I could write some tosh about how being poor has a tragic, poetic beauty to it. There must be a market for povo porn, surely?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I feel quite sad now.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Need to brand-build via guardian opinion section first.
krink
I'll do it this afternoon
If Proletarian Democracy can do it with The workers Girder, then so can I. Reach for the Tsars!
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Patrons don't want to pay for "poor people's views". One of their own will write it far better for their needs.
rekil
to menny cranks
The success of the AfD and the tasteful design of their loon mag is a reminder that it's time to relaunch Stonewashed.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Given the example I gave, getting a you tube channel up and running and providing regular new content to encourage people to subscribe would seem to be the full step.
krink
I'll do it this afternoon
Yes, I suppose the rich do have a much better understanding of the beauty of poverty than the poor.
This stuff always brings to my mind a story i heard where during the depression a visiting Lady told a group of Glasgow women how to make ends meet by using fish heads in their cookery. "Aye, and who gets the rest of the fish?" asked the audience!
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Ahhh. Stonewashed. Great mag. Make me feel, how do you say?, erm, comfortable. Like them beaded seat covers you get in certain cars.
rekil
to menny cranks
One for the middle age kicks listicle.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
my memory has that story in londons east end #regionalprideYes, I suppose the rich do have a much better understanding of the beauty of poverty than the poor.
This stuff always brings to my mind a story i heard where during the depression a visiting Lady told a group of Glasgow women how to make ends meet by using fish heads in their cookery. "Aye, and who gets the rest of the fish?" asked the audience!
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