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Urban v's the Commentariat

killer b said:
all 200-odd pages? and the 800-odd pages of the last one? why would anyone do that, really?
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Be here from the start... or as DC says. There is actually plenty of very interesting discussion amongst all of the derails and puns and trolls, but I wouldn't read it all again or if I was coming to it fresh.
But if you want to comment on a thread as a whole, then reading it would be a good idea, no?
 
Nancy_Winks said:
Tbf no way can I be arsed to read this mammoth thread and you could of just told me rather than write that waste of a post ;)
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Nah.

You decided to comment on what you think has been written on the thread.

Up to you whether you check the accuracy of your assertions.
 
Nancy_Winks said:
If I asked 10 people in the street who Laurie Penny was I'd guarantee you that not a single fucking one would have a clue. Not a bloody inkling. She's irrelevant. The left just love to hate her. Why do you think that is BigTom ? That's a more interesting question.
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I think Tom sort of answered why her journalism (which is weak) gets slated. Her education and career trajectory is predicated on opportunities that only a minority get to enjoy, but that doesn't seem to matter. Articulating on oppression from such a vantage point comes across as either a piss-take or irrelevant given her connections and status. Left-wingery as a marketable image, rather than something that springs from genuine experience of economic or social dispossession.

All been said before on here, tbh.
 
eatmorecheese said:
I think Tom sort of answered why her journalism (which is weak) gets slated. Her education and career trajectory is predicated on opportunities that only a minority get to enjoy, but that doesn't seem to matter. Articulating on oppression from such a vantage point comes across as either a piss-take or irrelevant given her connections and status. Left-wingery as a marketable image, rather than something that springs from genuine experience of economic or social dispossession.

All been said before on here, tbh.
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Oh god who cares. It's just not that important is it?
 
Nancy_Winks said:
Why the fuck is everyone on this thread so obsessed with her? 286 pages about Laurie Penny! :eek: Hardly anyone outside of urban has even heard of her she's that irrelevant. She not even the enemy ffs she's just a middle class leftie like loads of other people.
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Oh sod off firky
 
BigTom said:
Be here from the start... or as DC says. There is actually plenty of very interesting discussion amongst all of the derails and puns and trolls, but I wouldn't read it all again or if I was coming to it fresh.
But if you want to comment on a thread as a whole, then reading it would be a good idea, no?
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Why? You can get the flavour from the last 20 pages. I don't think you can ask someone to read 1000 pages of circuitous character assassination to comment on a thread tbh.

I agree there's some good stuff on here fwiw, but it's lost among the bile, and there's been nothing of value said in ages.
 
killer b said:
Why? You can get the flavour from the last 20 pages. I don't think you can ask someone to read 1000 pages of circuitous character assassination to comment on a thread tbh.

I agree there's some good stuff on here fwiw, but it's lost among the bile, and there's been nothing of value said in ages.
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I agree about the last bit, but Nancy said that it's 286 pages of obsession over laurie, she didn't ask if it was all about laurie or if the last few pages were representative of the thread as a whole or just comment on the pages she'd read, just made a statement about the whole thread and what it's been about, that's what I meant about commenting on the thread as a whole. I don't expect someone to read it all to talk about it or ask stuff about the thread but I don't think you should comment on things you haven't read. There's obviously a lot of the character assassination stuff but it's not what the threads have been about imo.
 
eatmorecheese said:
:D

I didn't realise that importance was a requirement for discussions on here ;)
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well no :D But I guess I think that a load of infighting in the left and eating your own tails is a real problem for the left. Nit picking all the differences and fierce arguments over the difference between the socialist workers and other niche parties that means nothing to anybody else.
 
BigTom said:
I agree about the last bit, but Nancy said that it's 286 pages of obsession over laurie, she didn't ask if it was all about laurie or if the last few pages were representative of the thread as a whole or just comment on the pages she'd read, just made a statement about the whole thread and what it's been about, that's what I meant about commenting on the thread as a whole.
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I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption for her to make tbf. Either way, she's illustrated how worthless the thread is now, even if it did have a purpose at one point.
 
eatmorecheese said:
I think Tom sort of answered why her journalism (which is weak) gets slated. Her education and career trajectory is predicated on opportunities that only a minority get to enjoy, but that doesn't seem to matter. Articulating on oppression from such a vantage point comes across as either a piss-take or irrelevant given her connections and status. Left-wingery as a marketable image, rather than something that springs from genuine experience of economic or social dispossession.

All been said before on here, tbh.
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she's a fake. After trying to defend her for ages irl (ok on twitter) I have come to the conclusion that whatever side she's on, it's not mine. And what she writes/says has a detrimental effect on activism.
 
Nancy_Winks said:
If I asked 10 people in the street who Laurie Penny was I'd guarantee you that not a single fucking one would have a clue. Not a bloody inkling. She's irrelevant. The left just love to hate her. Why do you think that is BigTom ? That's a more interesting question.
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Well one reason would be the role that people like Penny play in reinforcing the narrative that left wing politics is purely the preserve of privileged middle class liberals who treat it as a hobby horse for their own self promotion. Parasites feeding of peoples genuine concerns and issues. Penny is particularly galling in that she is promoted as the 'voice' of radical politics, which is why the focus.

The one positive is, as you point out, most people don't know who the fuck these people are, at the same time some who do are put of approaching a more radical perspective on socio-economic issues because idiots like Penny are presented as the embodiment of it. Better then that penny (and others like them) get torn down from a left approach to challenge the notion that they represent anything other than their own careers and the priviledges that enable them.
 
Yeah I do get what you mean Rice & Salt

It is fucking galling that the left has been completely hijacked by the upper middle class. The Guardian, Ed Milliband, that woman who cooks stuff for 10 p and goes busking with Billy Bragg, Billy Bragg etc (why is he so annoying lol), and I see how Laurie Penny is part of that.

And all that fucking navel gazing about split hair identity individualist politics, are you a transgendered lesbian black disabled woman cos if not I'm got more right to speak than you. All bollocks and symptomatic of the same problem of people looking at themselves and not the wider community.

I think obviously there's nothing wrong with upper middle class people being on the left, that's great, and the skills and professions they bring are necessary anyway. It's just fucking galling that sense of entitlement that they have to speak all the time. But then there's no working class people speaking louder. George Galloway I guess.

Why don't the unions kind of run Labour? People get voted up the unions and eventually into the Labour Party? That's probably a really stupid idea for lots of reasons I can't think of. It'd be better than Ed Milliband or whatever other middle class career politician in a suit stands there.
 
Nancy_Winks said:
Why don't the unions kind of run Labour? People get voted up the unions and eventually into the Labour Party? That's probably a really stupid idea for lots of reasons I can't think of. It'd be better than Ed Milliband or whatever other middle class career politician in a suit stands there.
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Trade Union careerist -> Labour MP was a definite career trajectory, see Jack Dromey MP for an example, Len McClusky (Unite gen sec) probably looking to do the same. Problem is that it's Ed Milliband etc that get to decide who stands as an MP (at least in winnable seats) so you're not likely to see someone like Bob Crow getting selected by them.
Another problem is that trade union careerists suffer from many of the same issues as career politicians in that their interests become gradually more and more divorced from the interests of the people they are meant to be working for. If you want to join the elite group, you must become like them, because they won't tend to promote people who aren't like them, particularly in terms of ideas and culture.

Anyway, plenty of tories will tell you that the unions do run Labour ;)
 
8den said:
Correction What does Jamie "I'm worth 150m and I've never finished a book" Oliver know about socialism.
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I don't know what he knows about socialism but he has certainly patronised a fair few socialists
 
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