Ukraine invasion memes and viral content

[Supine]

I've never said anybody's argument is invalid, just that this war has clearly entertained a certain type of people greatly. Seems to have given them a new lease of life, you could even say.

You seem to have the biggest new lease of life. Your posting has been prolific on this subject.

 

[RD2003]

You seem to have the biggest new lease of life. Your posting has been prolific on this subject.

Modestly so perhaps. But nowhere near as prolific as many others, on this and many other subjects.

The post count doesn't lie. You, for instance, have many more posts than me.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

 

[Raheem]

458 dead civilians in Bucha by the way.

No Starbucks in Russia for 170 days.

 

[strung out]

No Starbucks in Russia for 170 days.

Please stop wishing further harm on Russian civilians.

 

[WouldBe]

No Starbucks in Russia for 170 days.

Sounds like a bonus to me.

 

[HAL9000]

 

[Raheem]

Sounds like a bonus to me.

You think it's fun having to share the rest of town with people who should naturally be in Starbucks?

 

[WouldBe]

Wow how much damage are they going to do?

 

[Dystopiary]

You know as well as anybody what was implied in that Ukrainian government tweet.

Why do you keep quoting Bucha at me? For one thing, I didn't kill them and for another, having argued that the war was a mistake all along and could/ should have been avoided, have expressed no enthusiasm for the deaths of civilians or anybody else.

Others, meanwhile, enthusiasically cheer on a fight to the finish, with no apparent regard for the body count, and as if there can possibly be a nice outcome and it will all have been worth it.

What happened in Bucha is entirely relevant. If you had your way and the Ukrainians were treated with no human agency and left to their fate, there would have been a lot more atrocities like that. The Russian attackers didn't magically decide to stop committing warcrimes there, they were driven out of the area. Good.

 

[RD2003]

What happened in Bucha is entirely relevant. If you had your way and the Ukrainians were treated with no human agency and left to their fate, there would have been a lot more atrocities like that. The Russian attackers didn't magically decide to stop committing warcrimes there, they were driven out of the area. Good.

That's a good one. I say the war could and should have been avoided (that would have been, ahem, 'my way'), yet this would have resulted in a lot more atrocities?

Luckily, 'human agency' led to war and no atrocities.

 

[Humberto]

Avoided by surrendering immediately?

 

[LDC]

That's a good one. I say the war could and should have been avoided (that would have been, ahem, 'my way'), yet this would have resulted in a lot more atrocities?

Luckily, 'human agency' led to war and no atrocities.

I mean I agree, I think the war could and should have been avoided. Like all sorts of terrible things could and should have been. But it wasn't. So endlessly repeating that as if you can conjure up some alternative world now just seems to be giving you 2 things, 1) A superior moral position, and 2) A way of avoiding what is actually happening now and what to do about it.

So I don't get what your position would be if you actually lived in Ukraine, or indeed here when thinking and dealing with all sorts of issues that require some actual activity that's messy, complex and sometimes contradictory. Walk around with a banner saying 'This should never have happened?' Or are you going to avoid it again by telling me you're not in Ukraine, and anyway what we say here doesn't matter or make any difference?

Your position has many similarities with pacifism I think.

 

[RD2003]

Avoided by surrendering immediately?

Nobody would have to surrender to anybody if war was averted in the first place.

 

[two sheds]

But it wasn't. So what should be done to avoid Ukraine being overrun with more atrocities on civilians now?

 

[Supine]

Nobody would have to surrender to anybody if war was averted in the first place.

It didn’t happen and you haven’t suggested any way it could have happened. So deal with the reality of the situation.

 

[RD2003]

I mean I agree, I think the war could and should have been avoided. Like all sorts of terrible things could and should have been. But it wasn't. So endlessly repeating that as if you can conjure up some alternative world now just seems to be giving you 2 things, 1) A superior moral position, and 2) A way of avoiding what is actually happening now and what to do about it.

So I don't get what your position would be if you actually lived in Ukraine, or indeed here when thinking and dealing with all sorts of issues that require some actual activity that's messy, complex and sometimes contradictory. Walk around with a banner saying 'This should never have happened?' Or are you going to avoid it again by telling me you're not in Ukraine, and anyway what we say here doesn't matter or make any difference?

Your position has many similarities with pacifism I think.

I only repeat it to those who endlessly claim that I'm some kind of fiend who supports war crimes and suchlike. Which is a bit rich coming from those who greet every instance of escalation with jubilation, as if additional mass death (and probably further atrocities)are not guaranteed.

Is this how people live their lives-imagining themselves Ukrainian, or whatever nationality those where their focus of attention is, as if they'd be the same person they assume themselves to be in their own evironment?

 

[kabbes]

But it wasn't. So what should be done to avoid Ukraine being overrun with more atrocities on civilians now?

Going on messageboards to lecture people that war is bad, mm’kay

 

[RD2003]

It didn’t happen and you haven’t suggested any way it could have happened. So deal with the reality of the situation.

I think you'll find I have, not least in pointing out that Zelensky allowed himself to be pressured out of the further negotiations he apparently wanted by hardline nationalists. A choice between an imperfect peace and the near-destruction of the country.

I don't see that the armchair fighters are 'dealing' with anything. I do see them foaming by keyboard a lot (some of them clearly with a hard-on, although whether this is about themselves or the idea of war isn't always clear.

 

[RD2003]

But it wasn't. So what should be done to avoid Ukraine being overrun with more atrocities on civilians now?

I'll tell you what-as soon as I've formulated a plan, I'll make sure Zelensky and Putin get the email.

 

[LDC]

...Zelensky allowed himself to be pressured out of the further negotiations he apparently wanted by hardline nationalists. A choice between an imperfect peace and the near-destruction of the country.

I'm (not) surprised you can simplify the current situation to that tbh.

 

[Supine]

I think you'll find I have, not least in pointing out that Zelensky allowed himself to be pressured out of the further negotiations he apparently wanted by hardline nationalists. A choice between an imperfect peace and the near-destruction of the country.

I don't see that the armchair fighters are 'dealing' with anything. I do see them foaming by keyboard a lot (some of them clearly with a hard-on, although whether this is about themselves or the idea of war isn't always clear.

Yet more absolute crap from you. Those negotiations were after the invasion and pointless as no good faith and no Russian retreat was on the table.

 

[RD2003]

Going on messageboards to lecture people that war is bad, mm’kay

No worse than going on messageboards to self-righteously lecture people on a good clean war for justice (as if they're actually working towards the outcome that most fits the sensibilities of the people they imagine themselves to be.)

 

[RD2003]

Yet more absolute crap from you. Those negotiations were after the invasion and pointless as no good faith and no Russian retreat was on the table.

What are you talking about? There were negotaitions since 2014 on and off.

 

[two sheds]

I'll tell you what-as soon as I've formulated a plan, I'll make sure Zelensky and Putin get the email.

Does that mean you'll not be pontificating until you've formulated your grand plan? The people you're criticizing on here are at least trying to answer that question.

 

[RD2003]

I'm (not) surprised you can simplify the current situation to that tbh.

Unlike the armchairs, I'm doing the opposite of simplifying. There are no simple wars.

 

[RD2003]

Does that mean you'll not be pontificating until you've formulated your grand plan? The people you're criticizing on here are at least trying to answer that question.

Answer away, I'm not stopping anybody. I'd be interested in what they think they're achieving, as somebody who recognises that I am achieving precisely nowt.

 

[Supine]

Unlike the armchairs, I'm doing the opposite of simplifying. There are no simple wars.

Examples or stfu

 

[kabbes]

No worse than going on messageboards to self-righteously lecture people on a good clean war for justice (as if they're actually working towards the outcome that most fits the sensibilities of the people they imagine themselves to be.)

Depends if you view the spread of misinformation — such as you are doing about the effect of sanctions —as inherently destructive. Recent history has shown the cumulative effect of such misinformation. After all, the point of discourse is to attempt to affect the course of events. Suppose you succeed in persuading people that there is no point in fighting or imposing sanctions, and the cumulative effect of this is to create a popular movement to withdraw, in the style of “America First”. Then what — are we better off at that point?

 

[RD2003]

Examples or stfu

There are hundreds and thousands of examples spread across a glut of threads.