Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[TopCat]

How is being against the wholesale massacre of civilians and the devastation of homes somehow add up to 'being on the side of the US'?

It's a bizarre line of reasoning.

You support the US in their proxy war against Russia. Stop denying it, it’s pathetic.

 

[editor]

You support the US in their proxy war against Russia. Stop denying it, it’s pathetic.

Jesus. You've lost the plot completely. Try reading what I've written instead of busying yourself with all these monster strawmen.

 

[Rob Ray]

You support the US in their proxy war against Russia. Stop denying it, it’s pathetic.

You're capable of better than this.

 

[TopCat]

Jesus. You've lost the plot completely. Try reading what I've written instead of busying yourself with all these monster strawmen.

You don’t put forward much, insult a few posters then leave is your usual contribution.

But you do support the US in their war. You support the US supplying arms, intel etc in their proxy war. You want them to win.

 

[TopCat]

You're capable of better than this.

When I argue with foolish dullards, I tend to sink towards their level.

 

[LDC]

You support the US in their proxy war against Russia. Stop denying it, it’s pathetic.

That's simplistic and inaccurate. And also completely ignores all the other States that are actually much more supportive of Ukraine than the US.

Your thinking on this topic is just loony, you're like Galloway and all the red/brown anti-imperialists, absolutely stuck and obsessed with the US to the exclusion of being able to see anything but them.

 

[editor]

You don’t put forward much, insult a few posters then leave us your usual contribution.

But you do support the US in their war. You support the US supplying arms, intel etc in their proxy war. You want them to win.

You can keep repeating it as much as you like but that is not my position.

I want the war to end immediately, I want that cunt Putin to be held accountable for his crimes against humanity and Ukraine's stolen lands returned.

 

[TopCat]

You can keep repeating it as much as you like but that is not my position.

I want the war to end immediately, I want that cunt Putin to be held accountable for his crimes against humanity and Ukraine's stolen lands returned.

So you would support a ceasefire and negotiations then?

 

[LDC]

That's just a intellectually lazy (or politically convenient) opt out. Anyway evidence is for the court which hasn't sat yet obviously, but you think there's not enough to issue a warrant even?

And the warrant is for Ukrainian children being forcibly deported, of which there is plenty of first hand testimony and NGO investigations showing that this has happened. To dismiss that all as 'impossible to judge the truth of' is incredibly fucked up, not a very good look being a denier of the forcible deportation and resettlement of children is it?

Also note you never commented on this.

Go on, why don't you carry on and deny some more war crimes.

 

[editor]

When I argue with foolish dullards, I tend to sink towards their level.

Because you are so much smarter than everyone else and only special ol' you can see the real truth, and only you know what people really think, yes?

 

[Pickman's model]

I think Putin's hands are dripping with blood and there seems to be plenty of independent sources verifying the disgusting, vile war crimes that he's accused of. He's a piece of shit solely responsible for the deaths of thousands of men, women and children. May he rot in hell.

I hope that's clear enough for you.

He's surely not solely responsible, that's a very peculiar and strange position to take. Maybe you could outline why you don't think anyone else should take the blame for Russian actions

 

[TopCat]

Because you are so much smarter than everyone else and only special you can see the real truth, yes?

You haven’t exactly made smart contributions to this thread have you?

 

[editor]

So you would support a ceasefire and negotiations then?

It's a bit difficult to negotiate with Putin given his record on such things.
Anyway, I've already made my position crystal clear.

 

[LDC]

So you would support a ceasefire and negotiations then?

Lol. Depends on a whole host of factors, but in theory yes of course. (Like my/our support means anything at all though.) But by your earlier logic that would also mean support for the US if they pushed for any talks.

 

[TopCat]

Also note you never commented on this.

Go on, why don't you carry on and deny some more war crimes.

I don’t often take you off ignore

 

[Rob Ray]

It's not a "proxy war" though, is it. It's a war prosecuted by Russia which the US and several other countries have supplied one side for because that happens to be in their material interests. People are in favour of Ukrainians defending themselves against an imperial invasion, which benefits the US and Europe as a collateral effect. Honestly I get that it can feel lonely being the NWBTCW voice atm but it can be done without this silly attempt to background what actual Ukrainians are doing and hoping for behind the word "proxy."

 

[TopCat]

It's a bit difficult to negotiate with Putin given his record on such things.
Anyway, I've already made my position crystal clear.

Yeah, the intellectual post of the whole thread and probably war.

 

[Pickman's model]

Jesus. You've lost the plot completely. Try reading what I've written instead of busying yourself with all these monster strawmen.

Anyone who says shoigu and gerasimov played no role in Russian actions in Ukraine is in no position to say someone else has lost the plot

 

[cupid_stunt]

How is being against the wholesale massacre of civilians and the devastation of homes somehow adding up to 'being on the side of the US'?

It's a bizarre line of reasoning.

Of course it is, it's TopCat.

 

[Artaxerxes]

It's not a "proxy war" though, is it. It's a war prosecuted by Russia which the US and several other countries have supplied one side for because that happens to be in their material interests. People are in favour of Ukrainians defending themselves against an imperial invasion, which benefits the US and Europe as a collateral effect. Honestly I get that it can feel lonely being the NWBTCW voice atm but it can be done without this silly attempt to background what actual Ukrainians are doing and hoping for behind the word "proxy."

No man Zelensky made Putin invade because Nato so really its entirely his fault


/s (just so we're clear here)

 

[cupid_stunt]

So you would support a ceasefire and negotiations then?

Of course, as long as it's negotiations about Russian retreat .and the return of stolen land, and indeed people including children.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I don’t often take you off ignore

Classic urban.

 

[LDC]

It's not a "proxy war" though, is it. It's a war prosecuted by Russia which the US and several other countries have supplied one side for because that happens to be in their material interests. People are in favour of Ukrainians defending themselves against an imperial invasion, which benefits the US and Europe as a collateral effect. Honestly I get that it can feel lonely being the NWBTCW voice atm but it can be done without this silly attempt to background what actual Ukrainians are doing and hoping for behind the word "proxy."

I think crediting him as a NWBTCW is too kind, he's much more in the Galloway/alt-right/weird old alcohol addled anti-imperialist soft on the Russian State camp I'd say.

 

[Pickman's model]

You haven’t exactly made smart contributions to this thread have you?

I'm really curious why editor thinks none of the Russian soldiers found guilty of war crimes should bear any responsibility for deaths they caused

 

[LDC]

I'm really curious why editor thinks none of the Russian soldiers found guilty of war crimes should bear any responsibility for deaths they caused

Not sure he'd think that and he definitely didn't write it, but the discussion was about Putin wasn't it as he's the one with the warrant for war crimes.

 

[LDC]

Surprising lack of "this proxy war of Poland and Slovakia" with the jets isn't there?

 

[Pickman's model]

Not sure he'd think that and he definitely didn't write it, but the discussion was about Putin wasn't it as he's the one with the warrant for war crimes.

What other conclusion can you draw from the declaration that putin is solely responsible for the deaths in this conflict? There are Russian soldiers in prison in Ukraine convicted of war crimes, so don't give me this blather about 'he's the one with the warrant' nonsense. He's one person with a warrant, he's far from the only person responsible

 

[TopCat]

What other conclusion can you draw from the declaration that putin is solely responsible for the deaths in this conflict?

Someone hasn’t given it all much thought or analysis?

 

[Artaxerxes]

What other conclusion can you draw from the declaration that putin is solely responsible for the deaths in this conflict?

 

[LDC]

What other conclusion can you draw from the declaration that putin is solely responsible for the deaths in this conflict?

I read it as him being solely responsible for thousands of deaths, which doesn't mean other individuals aren't responsible for some of those as well. But I think you are being a pedant and over analysing a single quickly written post.