ska invita
back on the other side
Excellent. I hope all the Oh So NATO made him do it heads read it
Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24
- Thread starter kebabking
- Start date
ska invita
back on the other side
You know why, but I hear your point. In practice NATO is supporting in every possible way other than boots on the ground.
If there is a peace treaty that leaves Russia with gained territory id expect that new border will be held up by international forces, but that's my speculation.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
I suspect that the ole’ shermans may have places that make other stuff too, when I go over there they seem to have places all over the place.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Finland.
Didn’t Russia get pwned quite badly there previously?
Find it quite interesting that the US informed Russia of Bidens’s visit a few days before he went. Kind of exposes Putin’s nonsense about war with the US/NATO. The fact they did that and Russia sat back and kept quiet like the naughty child they are shows that they know full well what war with NATO/US means.
Add to that and the ‘satan missile’ test that went wonky, (how could it have gone any other way?), the real question has to be why is NATO holding back?
If Russia is dissolved, will there still be a role for NATO?
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
It’ll be staring down China
Raheem
Well-Known Member
It is an interesting article, but it omits to mention that the cooling of European governments towards cooperation with Russia came in the context of Russia invading Georgia, poisoning the President of Ukraine, shooting opposition politicians, making a London hotel bar radioactive and so on. It's not as if Merkel and co just suddenly got bored.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Taiwan is a red herring, Xi doesn’t want to dominate via war, he wants to do it via the Benjamins, he’s done pretty well but you don’t pull a higher level third world nation into global economic #1 in a generation or two. Personally don’t see China as a threat, militarily the US and their allies will stomp any expansionist planes of theirs for the foreseeable. But that doesn’t seem to be their way, with a sixth of the global population they are now open and they’re on the world stage. They are right, the Cold War mentality needs to end .
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
A lot of the people they’ve been throwing at the front are anything but young, they’ll accept volunteers up to the age of 60 iirc, and we’ve all seen the pictures of this. Younger people are disproportionately more likely to have fled the country, the young, IT-savvy who’ve bypassed the censorship and have more liberal opinions aren’t hanging about.
One issue they’ve faced is that many of their more capable troops were wiped out in the initial invasion, the self-regarding elite VDV (paras equivalent) took massive casualties. This has led to a skills gap, and lack of experienced people to train new recruits - also why they’ve been sending many to Belarus for training (triggering rumours of an invasion from there). Plus the higher echelons of the military are often promoted there through nepotism and corruption rather than through ability.
2hats
Dust.
A few days before, at random, the US pulled an active MMIII from a silo and successfully lobbed it at Kwajalein.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
It's not a game of bloody tennis!!!
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Putin got away with all that tho, the thing that shut down cooperation happened a year ago
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Depends on your definition of "got away with". He suffered the diplomatic consequences and doubled down.
Supine
Newt Member
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
This is long but very interesting; multiple politicians, intelligence officials and military commanders recount the story of the build-up to the Russian invasion.
www.politico.com
‘Something Was Badly Wrong’: When Washington Realized Russia Was Actually Invading Ukraine
A first-ever oral history of how top U.S. and Western officials saw the warning signs of a European land war, their frantic attempts to stop it — and the moment Putin actually crossed the border.
www.politico.com
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Let's put it this way, western countries were working with Russia on a very wide range of things until the invasion of Ukraine last year.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
That partnership is November 2021, when Russia’s build-up for invasion was well underway. It was likely more a reactive partnership stemming what was going on over the border than some long-planned expansionist scheme.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I don't suppose these partnerships are just drawn up overnight, there must have been rather a tail before the thing was signed
teqniq
DisMembered
This is worth a read. It articulates in an essay, drawing on the reporter's direct experiences of Putin's strategy of targeting civilian populations:
www.vanityfair.com
Vladimir Putin’s Inhumane Blueprint to Terrorize Civilians in Chechnya, Syria—And Now Ukraine
A year into the war, a veteran conflict reporter presents a withering assessment of the Russian leader’s strategy of systematic carnage in three decimated cities: Grozny, Aleppo, and Mariupol.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Nope.
strung out
💩 🤣 🍆 💦 🧐 👻 🐝 🐈⬛
Not even the Chinese I expect.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Ukraine has a ten point 'peace treaty', there's now the Chinese initiative. Do we know of any other countries that have put forward a peace plan?
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
I imagine various governments are doing it just to look relevant - or for a bet...
Ukraine would probably accept the 'breakaway' (invaded) republics, and Crimea, being under UN governance but within the Ukrainian nation, but only if the PK/PE forces under that UN administration included a significant proportion from NATO countries, and with Ukraine joining both the EU and NATO, with NATO forces being stationed in Ukraine.
That's my hunch of the fudge they'd be likely to accept - there'd probably be a little bit of wiggle room about very small slices of territory going to Russia proper, but I'm talking about a village here and a village there.
Russia? No idea. They'd probably say that they'd keep the subsumed republics and Crimea as Russia proper, Ukraine from the Dneipr to the Ru border as a UN protectorate staffed by Russians, and western Ukraine as a 'sovereign' state that was constitutionally neutral by treaty (think Austria post WW2), but no EU membership, limits on size of its armed forces etc...
For the Russians, that wouldn't be their acceptable end state, it would simply be a pause line - when everyone gets bored, and they've rebuilt their army, they'd simply invade once again.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
I liked the way Biden condemned the Chinese proposal but then Zelensky said he wanted to talk to the Chinese about it only to have his spokesman say it was off limits shortly after.
Similar threads
