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Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

By Russia, it helps the propaganda machine demonise its enemies and for little cost, it'll work up the Home based nutters innit.
The footage really doesnt tie in with the early narrative of noteably damaging the Mainstay and looks like its filmed from a small quadcopter that wouldn't have much range...looks staged to me

Any claims or denials by BYPOL, and what do you make of those? Or do you think BYPOL more generally are a pseudo-org of some kind? You know the attack wasn't in Russia btw, so you're suggesting a Russian false flag in Belarus? Like they need any excuse like that to demonise people, and also who are they demonising, the Belarus opposition who claimed it? Re: the range, the attack was by partisans in Belarus, why would it need much range if launched locally?

Some actual evidence would be good rather than a general 'I reckon'.
 
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By Russia, it helps the propaganda machine demonise its enemies and for little cost, it'll work up the Home based nutters innit.
The footage really doesnt tie in with the early narrative of noteably damaging the Mainstay and looks like its filmed from a small quadcopter that wouldn't have much range...looks staged to me
As if you're any kind of authority of what 'staged' events look like. It's people like you constantly babbling on about 'false flags' and 'narratives' that do more to obfuscate the truth than anyone else.
 
Oh fuck off, its just my opinion you knob

I've got a book recommendation for you.

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The king rat at Wagner is claiming only old men and children are defending Bakhmut,

In the video posted by Prigozhin, recorded on a building’s rooftop four miles north of Bakhmut, the Wagner chief claimed his forces were increasingly fighting against old men and children rather than the professional Ukrainian army.

The footage showed what looked like three captured Ukrainians – an older man and two young boys – who looked frightened and asked to be allowed to go home. They appeared to be talking in what looked like a choreographed appearance under extreme stress.


 
Some other help ...


At times, even simple things are needed amongst all the "high tech" !
This was quite a good low-tech solution Australia has been providing:


Though I was quite amused In another article on this that they were keen to point out how it could carry a few kg in weight ‘such as delivering blood plasma up to 70km’. Funny how they picked that as an example rather than dropping anti-armour grenades on infantry.

There must be a phrase/word a bit like ‘greenwashing’ where potentially lethal tech has a strong emphasis placed on its potential humanitarian benefits. They’ve been doing this for years, disaster relief is a favourite topic.
 
Yeah it probably belongs there, but tbh separating out stuff into so many threads doesnt work well, though it gives pedants and nit pickers something to whinge about (not directed at you btw)
 
Looks pretty solid that Ukr will withdraw from Bakhmut, they are hemmed in, and the Ru having been making incremental advances on the flanks to the point where they could get surrounded.

That said: the Russians have paid an astonishing price for a town the size of East Kilbride (insert joke here..) that has been levelled to the point where it looks like Ypres in 1917. We think the Russians have suffered about 10,000 casualties within 5 miles of Bakhmut, and that given what Russian battlefield medicine is like, that means 8,000+ fatalities.

We think that (roughly) the Bakhmut front has used about 1 in 3 of every single Russian artillery shell fired in Ukraine in the last month, and 1 in 2 of every fast jet or attack helicopter sortie flown over Ukraine.

We think that something like 50-60% of the entire Russian Spring offensive in Ukraine has been used up to get to the point where Bakhmut falls.

Ukraine has certainly taken casualties, and they have started to rise significantly as the Russian pincer movement has got tighter - Ukraine has been using Bakhmut as a meat grinder for the Russian Army, and has done so very successfully, but it's starting to cost them more than they can afford to keep it going.

The question now is timing - within the next week would be my take from the messaging - and whether Ukraine can complete a fighting withdrawal from the pocket and keep it's force there intact and able to fight another day, or whether the pocket will be destroyed with the Ukrainians still in there.

I'd put reasonable money on the former, not least because the Ukrainians have shown themselves able to conduct hugely complex ground operations, and the Russians just haven't - I don't see the Russian inf/armour as being able to constantly push the Ukr while they withdraw and be able to keep the artillery on the Ukrainians as they move. Usually the Ru go in two stages - artillery first, blast the shit out of everything, then stop fires and let the Inf/armour move forward. Doing both at the same time in a coordinated fashion seems beyond them.

It will be a disappointment to Ukr, but in purely military terms it's done it's job - it's blunted the much feared Ru spring offensive, and now the Ukrainians have got bigger fish to fry. They have their own spring offensive, they've got lots of new tanks, guns and IFV to do it with, and they simply need all the manpower and fires they can get to to be able to take advantage of the gains they think they can make through manouvere warfare.

Compared to that, losing Bakhmut is small beer.
 
Looks pretty solid that Ukr will withdraw from Bakhmut, they are hemmed in, and the Ru having been making incremental advances on the flanks to the point where they could get surrounded.

That said: the Russians have paid an astonishing price for a town the size of East Kilbride (insert joke here..) that has been levelled to the point where it looks like Ypres in 1917. We think the Russians have suffered about 10,000 casualties within 5 miles of Bakhmut, and that given what Russian battlefield medicine is like, that means 8,000+ fatalities.

We think that (roughly) the Bakhmut front has used about 1 in 3 of every single Russian artillery shell fired in Ukraine in the last month, and 1 in 2 of every fast jet or attack helicopter sortie flown over Ukraine.

We think that something like 50-60% of the entire Russian Spring offensive in Ukraine has been used up to get to the point where Bakhmut falls.

Ukraine has certainly taken casualties, and they have started to rise significantly as the Russian pincer movement has got tighter - Ukraine has been using Bakhmut as a meat grinder for the Russian Army, and has done so very successfully, but it's starting to cost them more than they can afford to keep it going.

The question now is timing - within the next week would be my take from the messaging - and whether Ukraine can complete a fighting withdrawal from the pocket and keep it's force there intact and able to fight another day, or whether the pocket will be destroyed with the Ukrainians still in there.

I'd put reasonable money on the former, not least because the Ukrainians have shown themselves able to conduct hugely complex ground operations, and the Russians just haven't - I don't see the Russian inf/armour as being able to constantly push the Ukr while they withdraw and be able to keep the artillery on the Ukrainians as they move. Usually the Ru go in two stages - artillery first, blast the shit out of everything, then stop fires and let the Inf/armour move forward. Doing both at the same time in a coordinated fashion seems beyond them.

It will be a disappointment to Ukr, but in purely military terms it's done it's job - it's blunted the much feared Ru spring offensive, and now the Ukrainians have got bigger fish to fry. They have their own spring offensive, they've got lots of new tanks, guns and IFV to do it with, and they simply need all the manpower and fires they can get to to be able to take advantage of the gains they think they can make through manouvere warfare.

Compared to that, losing Bakhmut is small beer.
Just going back to your point about the Russian lack of coordination, do you feel the russians would have trouble with a creeping barrage in front of advancing troops?
 
Just going back to your point about the Russian lack of coordination, do you feel the russians would have trouble with a creeping barrage in front of advancing troops?

Astonishingly, yes.

We have seen them do it successfully with the rear line of impacts, and forward edge of friendly troops separated by a good mile or so, with everything moving at a set and steady pace, but every time we've seen them try to do it at anything approaching danger close, or with the Ukrainians fighting back and making the Ru advance go in fits and starts, they simply end up being as much a danger to the Russians as they are to the Ukrainians.
 
Just going back to your point about the Russian lack of coordination, do you feel the russians would have trouble with a creeping barrage in front of advancing troops?
That's what they were doing for the attacks that took Sievierodonetsk & Lysychansk - but we don't know whether that process involved any "friendly fire" incidents.
I suspect that currently how well that tactic would work will depend on how effective any counter-battery fire is, both now and how it has been [as the latter should have eliminated the more experienced / well-trained artillery units / personnel.
 
Looks pretty solid that Ukr will withdraw from Bakhmut
Not yet, at least according to Zelenski. Impossible to know who's bluffing and how really, could be that Ukraine are withdrawing but want the Russians to think they aren't, or that Prigozhin is lying about ammo shortages to try and encourage Ukraine to leave their troops in the encirclement until it's too late, or both, or neither ...
 
I think the footage of the shooting of the Ukrainian POW is going to be another tipping point. I do not recommend watching it if you are at all sensitive - it's brutal and horrible. But it's getting all over the place on Twitter, and I have a feeling this might be another "Russian warship, go fuck yourself" moment. The tragedy is that it's another life meaninglessly lost - but hugely and bluntly illustrative of what this whole thing is about.
 
Looks pretty solid that Ukr will withdraw from Bakhmut, they are hemmed in, and the Ru having been making incremental advances on the flanks to the point where they could get surrounded.

That said: the Russians have paid an astonishing price for a town the size of East Kilbride (insert joke here..) that has been levelled to the point where it looks like Ypres in 1917. We think the Russians have suffered about 10,000 casualties within 5 miles of Bakhmut, and that given what Russian battlefield medicine is like, that means 8,000+ fatalities.

We think that (roughly) the Bakhmut front has used about 1 in 3 of every single Russian artillery shell fired in Ukraine in the last month, and 1 in 2 of every fast jet or attack helicopter sortie flown over Ukraine.

We think that something like 50-60% of the entire Russian Spring offensive in Ukraine has been used up to get to the point where Bakhmut falls.

Ukraine has certainly taken casualties, and they have started to rise significantly as the Russian pincer movement has got tighter - Ukraine has been using Bakhmut as a meat grinder for the Russian Army, and has done so very successfully, but it's starting to cost them more than they can afford to keep it going.

The question now is timing - within the next week would be my take from the messaging - and whether Ukraine can complete a fighting withdrawal from the pocket and keep it's force there intact and able to fight another day, or whether the pocket will be destroyed with the Ukrainians still in there.

I'd put reasonable money on the former, not least because the Ukrainians have shown themselves able to conduct hugely complex ground operations, and the Russians just haven't - I don't see the Russian inf/armour as being able to constantly push the Ukr while they withdraw and be able to keep the artillery on the Ukrainians as they move. Usually the Ru go in two stages - artillery first, blast the shit out of everything, then stop fires and let the Inf/armour move forward. Doing both at the same time in a coordinated fashion seems beyond them.

It will be a disappointment to Ukr, but in purely military terms it's done it's job - it's blunted the much feared Ru spring offensive, and now the Ukrainians have got bigger fish to fry. They have their own spring offensive, they've got lots of new tanks, guns and IFV to do it with, and they simply need all the manpower and fires they can get to to be able to take advantage of the gains they think they can make through manouvere warfare.

Compared to that, losing Bakhmut is small beer.

Can I just say thank you so much for this. I used to love this thread for insightful analysis of the situation in Ukraine, and over the last few months it became something very different. Am very grateful for posts like this that provide genuine perspectives on the likely situation on the ground. Thank you.
 
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