Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[frogwoman]

part of the reason they've been destroyed in the propaganda war is because they wanted to keep this war secret from the public so no massive onslaught of propaganda.

 

[bimble]

part of the reason they've been destroyed in the propaganda war is because they wanted to keep this war secret from the public so no massive onslaught of propaganda.

why though? They knew public would not support it?

 

[frogwoman]

why though? They knew public would not support it?

yep this

 

[frogwoman]

also they wanted to keep up the 'ha ha the hysterical west is convinced there will be a war'

 

[JimW]

Presumably everyone remembers the lies told about the previous war against Ukraine.

 

[RileyOBlimey]

 

[Artaxerxes]

why though? They knew public would not support it?

The aim seems to be to have gone in, caused the leadership to run like shit and move right in. At the very least leave a power vacuum.

That way they could say "see this regime wasn't ever legitimate, what gangsters and cowards, now its time for real elections (led by us, your friendly Russian liberators) to put one of Putins buddies or clients in charge."

A plan that didn't survive contact with Zelensky standing still and saying go fuck yourself, or literally every other Ukrainian doing the same thing.

 

[bimble]

It does again suggest that they did not expect this to be long or expensive, that they did not bother trying to get the public onside at all.

 

[Dogsauce]

There was a US space company that shared some images of a massive convoy yesterday with location and expected route.
This was last night and the pics were in daylight, so I think this would have been shared with the Ukrainians some time earlier.

Cheers. I’d kind of assumed they’d be being given this stuff anyway, but saw someone (possibly on here) yesterday saying this had been ‘offered’ or words to that effect, and it surprised me that it wasn’t being fed to them even before the invasion.

I’d also expect more satellite/aerial imagery of destroyed Russian hardware on the TV/news sites if the war is going anything like the way it is being presented, the media loves stuff like that and it’s good propaganda so surprised not much has been shared, I’ve only seen that drone attack footage really. The sort of thing that would rally one side and demoralise another.

The US used to love showing bombs going down chimneys and so on, mainly to try and sell the idea of bombardment being precise and humane.

 

[8ball]

part of the reason they've been destroyed in the propaganda war is because they wanted to keep this war secret from the public so no massive onslaught of propaganda.

Amazed that they thought they could pull this off.
Very different to what we are used to, not seeing the larger, more heavily-armed aggressor go in with embedded journalists etc.

 

[bimble]

also they wanted to keep up the 'ha ha the hysterical west is convinced there will be a war'

This was broadcast to the Russian people, the idea that it was all lies & there was not going to be a war at all?

 

[frogwoman]

This was broadcast to the Russian people, the idea that there was not going to be war at all?

yep. they are still trying to say that its not a war its a special operation (and a limited special operation in the donbass)

 

[Cloo]

My parents are offering their house in Slovakia to the family of their friend's Ukrainian wife who are currently waiting at Slovak border - I guess they'll be trying to get to the UK through friend in some way, though he and his wife are still in Ukraine. He's updating on FB - I think they've gone to their summer 'dacha' in the countryside and says the worst has passed them by, though he heard some loud barrages nearby on his birthday a few days ago, but it seems to have moved on from where they are now.

 

[frogwoman]

the idea was that it was going to be a very limited military incursion into the donbass rather than bombing kyiv and all these other places!

 

[Cloo]

yep. they are still trying to say that its not a war its a special operation (and a limited special operation in the donbass)

Presumably they are just there to 'aid security' in Eastern Ukraine?

 

[8ball]

yep. they are still trying to say that its not a war its a special operation (and a limited special operation in the donbass)

Yeah, I'd noticed the repeated use of the term "special operation". Figured it was optics rather than full-on concealment.

 

[frogwoman]

think its both tbh. they can't hide it now!

 

[frogwoman]

most people may have expected some sort of limited incursion into the donbass to help the 'republics' but not actually a full on war!

 

[bimble]

yep. they are still trying to say that its not a war its a special operation (and a limited special operation in the donbass)

You mean on Russian media they're telling people that there's nothing going on at all outside that area ? Nobody is attacking Kyiv at all nothing like that?

 

[frogwoman]

for example https://ugra-news.ru/article/voenny...siyu_v_donbasse_prinuzhdeniem_ukrainy_k_miru/

«Война не начинается, война заканчивается» – эта фраза священника Андрея Ткачева стала крылатой, и отражает суть военной спецоперации России по помощи Донбассу. Святой отец очень хорошо знает ситуацию в Донецкой и Луганской республике – с начала 90-х и по 2014 год он выполнял свою духовную миссию на Украине.

'War has not started, war has finished - this phrase of the priest Andrei Tkachev has become a catchphrase, and reflects the essence of Russia's special military operation to help Donbass'.

 

[platinumsage]

You mean on Russian media they're telling people that there's nothing going on at all outside that area ? Nobody is attacking Kyiv at all nothing like that?

Yes, RT are doing this too.

Even the Russian representative at today’s emergency UN General Assembly was spouting this line.

 

[frogwoman]

You mean on Russian media they're telling people that there's nothing going on at all outside that area ? Nobody is attacking Kyiv at all nothing like that?

i don't think they are telling people there's no attacks on kyiv as such, i think they're just not showing it or not really mentioning it. there are lots of russians who rely on tv news and wouldn't necesssarily know what was going on. and on tv news they're not talking about kyiv at all. yesterday at the demo there was someone who lived ukraine but whose grandparents were from russia and the news they were watching didn't even show a war in kyiv.

 

[RileyOBlimey]

Russian Electric Vehicle Chargers Hacked, Tell Users ‘PUTIN IS A DICKHEAD’

The chargers no longer work and display a scrolling message reading “Glory to Ukraine / Glory to the heroes”

www.vice.com

 

[zahir]

 

[frogwoman]

Захарова: спецоперация РФ является не началом войны, а предотвращением войны глобальной​

'Zacharova - Russia's special operation is not the beginning of a war, but the prevention of a global war'

Захарова: спецоперация РФ является не началом войны, а предотвращением войны глобальной - ТАСС

Официальный представитель МИД РФ подчеркнула, что кровопролитная война с потерями среди гражданского населения велась в Донбассе восемь лет

tass.ru

 

[bimble]

was just going to say, it makes me wonder about the soldiers.
If the regime knew that the public would not want this war, why would soldiers be motivated to risk their lives for it any more than necessary. Maybe the advantage of having massively greater numbers and more weapons doesn't mean as much when the other side have all of the anger and clarity of purpose.

 

[bimble]

"full amnesty" and a new secret identity in Ukraine?

 

[elbows]

for example Военный эксперт назвал спецоперацию в Донбассе «принуждением Украины к миру»



'War has not started, war has finished - this phrase of the priest Andrei Tkachev has become a catchphrase, and reflects the essence of Russia's special military operation to help Donbass'.

I note that if I computer translate that news article, its got stuff like this in it:

Of course, the confrontation will continue, and the situation will be especially acute now, when Russian troops begin to liberate Kiev from the Nazis and troops of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. And the fall of the Ukrainian capital, according to analysts, should occur within the next two days.

The 'not a war with Ukraine' form of propaganda is expanded upon via this sort of predictable propaganda:

Russian President Vladimir Putin, in his address to the nation on February 24, immediately said that this was not Russia's war with Ukraine. This is a special operation to denazify the country. No one will touch the country's residents and soldiers who refused to fight. Our military immediately said that cities and civilian objects would not be subjected to fire. And this confirmed the course of the operation.

Ukrainian neo-Nazis, on the contrary, began to use Hamas militant tactics, which, by the way, were taught by the Americans by Middle Eastern terrorists. A firing point is installed in a house, and, hiding behind civilians, militants fire at the enemy. The Ukrainian army does not stop hitting its civilian population, fire is carried out on residential buildings - and all this is presented as Russia's actions. But we are fighting fakes quite successfully. We've all seen video fragments of Ukrainian tanks pressing cars. The Russian army, occupying the suburbs of Ukrainian cities, carefully leads armored vehicles past transport. No Ukrainian vehicle was crushed by our tanks. And Ukrainian sappers blow up bridges along with cars driving on them. And here it is appropriate to ask this question: who is really at war with Ukrainians?

 

[frogwoman]

was just going to say, it makes me wonder about the soldiers.
If the regime knew that the public would not want this war, why would soldiers be motivated to risk their lives for it any more than necessary. Maybe the advantage of having massively greater numbers and more weapons doesn't mean as much when the other side have all of the anger and clarity of purpose.

have you not seen the stuff about how many soldiers' families and even soldiers themselves were unaware they were even there for a war?

 

[bimble]

have you not seen the stuff about how many soldiers' families and even soldiers themselves were unaware they were even there for a war?

yeah but didn't know if to believe it. Now i do. That's got to make a massive difference, if your soldiers are just doing their best to try to get home alive.