stethoscope
Well-Known Member
its a troll ffs, just ignore it potty mouth
And I should listen to you why?
Tory UK EU Exit Referendum
- Thread starter paolo
- Start date
And I should listen to you why?
I am very confused within myself about the in and out debate, because to me remaining in Europe is a kindness and a sacrifice worthy of Jesus, Buddha or Allah.
It's a sharing out of what this country has to offer to those that have less and is also a sacrifice in turns of quality of life and in physical safety.
It's the complete reverse of the idea of a country being self-interested, on the one hand it scares me on the other hand it blows my mind. I see many practical negatives to staying into the EU but they are only negatives for the people in this country. People migrate and choose to work in Britain from places which are sometimes far poorer and less enlightened.
The sacrifice for the existing population, is increased rent in house prices, longer waits for hospital treatment, larger school sizes, resources being diverted for non-English-speaking pupils. Siblings being split up due to scarcity of school places, more competition when jobhunting.
There is also a sacrifice of accepting in showing care to the small percentage that wish to kill us. And the money spent on de-radicalisation programmes. There is the pain of areas and neighbourhoods that become no-go that once belonged to everyone.
But this sacrifice is the true heart of spiritual practice. We should allow ourselves to become poorer to help the many who have less. This includes the migrants desperate to get out of the Third World and the poverty they are trapped in, their lives are no less valuable than ours.
My mean outdated model is to be pragmatic and protect what we have and protect people we care about. I'm not too crazy about forced quotas of young Arab men coming to this country who have a very backward attitude towards the way they treat women and who might struggle to blend in. But how are they going to learn a more enlightened attitude than being in the West and seeing a better example of equality. So that's a sacrifice of safety of people we care about presumably be all have sisters mothers etc.
If we vote to stay in the UK to my mind it will be a wonderful kindness, a very scary kindness of mind blowing charity. Risky but with a true heart of goodness and if we vote to stay in Europe, this is how I will take it. The problem is one part of me is rooted in, survival of the fittest, being strong protecting against danger being pragmatic. But I will go with optimism if it triumphs.
Disclaimer I'm not putting this on anyone else, this is my own personal opinion and how I feel.
It's a sharing out of what this country has to offer to those that have less and is also a sacrifice in turns of quality of life and in physical safety.
It's the complete reverse of the idea of a country being self-interested, on the one hand it scares me on the other hand it blows my mind. I see many practical negatives to staying into the EU but they are only negatives for the people in this country. People migrate and choose to work in Britain from places which are sometimes far poorer and less enlightened.
The sacrifice for the existing population, is increased rent in house prices, longer waits for hospital treatment, larger school sizes, resources being diverted for non-English-speaking pupils. Siblings being split up due to scarcity of school places, more competition when jobhunting.
There is also a sacrifice of accepting in showing care to the small percentage that wish to kill us. And the money spent on de-radicalisation programmes. There is the pain of areas and neighbourhoods that become no-go that once belonged to everyone.
But this sacrifice is the true heart of spiritual practice. We should allow ourselves to become poorer to help the many who have less. This includes the migrants desperate to get out of the Third World and the poverty they are trapped in, their lives are no less valuable than ours.
My mean outdated model is to be pragmatic and protect what we have and protect people we care about. I'm not too crazy about forced quotas of young Arab men coming to this country who have a very backward attitude towards the way they treat women and who might struggle to blend in. But how are they going to learn a more enlightened attitude than being in the West and seeing a better example of equality. So that's a sacrifice of safety of people we care about presumably be all have sisters mothers etc.
If we vote to stay in the UK to my mind it will be a wonderful kindness, a very scary kindness of mind blowing charity. Risky but with a true heart of goodness and if we vote to stay in Europe, this is how I will take it. The problem is one part of me is rooted in, survival of the fittest, being strong protecting against danger being pragmatic. But I will go with optimism if it triumphs.
Disclaimer I'm not putting this on anyone else, this is my own personal opinion and how I feel.
newbie
undisambiguated
It's his claim not mine. I don't know how you'd establish a cast iron case, but the government has lost at the ECJ on plenty of occasions, they lose some 3/4 of their cases- this sort of thing:
or this
and some matters don't need to go to the ECJ
ffsear
Well-Known Member
because, for once, i'm on your side.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
True, but being in the EU isn't going to make it even worse for anyone in the UK whereas leaving might.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Great opening gambit, but your opinion isn't worth diddly squat.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
I don't think you quite get the powers of the EU in this respect. The EU does not allow state monopolies, but it does not disallow state provision either.
Er... The court referred the Davies-Watson case to the CJEU (ECJ). Chose to refer it...
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
Saw a bit of Newsnight last night interviewing voters out in the country. Still a fair few undecided ?
What more do they need to know ???? No one knows what will happen if we exit so it's a gamble.
What more do they need to know ???? No one knows what will happen if we exit so it's a gamble.
newbie
undisambiguated
fair enough.
tbh it would take far too long to plough through all the court judgements to find evidence of one or other part of the British state being told they can't pursue a nasty, profit driven, right wing agenda (and longer still to get the procedural detail correct
). That's only part of the picture, there's also trying to interpret all the incidents of British officials or politicians arguing against a majority with less rightwing or neo-liberal views during negotiations and meetings. My impression, simply from having lived through the last decade or two and read the news, is that I've seldom supported the UK government position and often thought that the continental types have a better clue.
Perhaps the original question could be turned round. Is there any evidence of the UK acting as a brake on other EU governments wanting to spin in a rightward direction? Or evidence of the UK pushing for greater worker, health, consumer or environmental protections being thwarted by the rest wanting greater business friendly 'freedom' or 'deregulation'?
newbie
undisambiguated
I'm still undecided between the equally unpalatable options of the devil I know or voting for christmas. tbh I (still) want to be inspired by the 'left' case for exit- or even to find out if there really is one, rather than just lists of examples of what we already know is wrong about the EU and some vague jam tomorrow idealism.
The point is what information is at the disposal of general masses that can affect their decision on this topic. Currently when I see reports what these mix of migrants and refugees are doing in european countries with locals make me feel bad. The crime rate has rapidly gone up it includes good no. of sexual assaults on females etc. They don't assimilate into local culture, ethics, values etc. they just love impose their own system on whole local system. EU country security services are struggling to cope up with rapid influx of so called refugees(some are while some are migrants with purpose..). The import of cargo is also giving easy invite to ISIS jehadis. So potential of instability in these countries is pretty high.
cunt off
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I suspect that many of us who appreciate that we're being invited to choose between 2 forms of hollowed-out, post-democratic neoliberalism feel "undecided".
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
they always come out when it's a full moon
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Reported.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
so your solution is to stop importing anything.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I assumed the meaning was human 'cargo'...isn't that how these types express themselves?so your solution is to stop importing anything.
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
In the short term vote leave get's you Bojo or Gove, possibly May as PM, do you want that? The knock on consequences for Europe are scary.
You're right , the left have been quiet or haven't been heard, the Tories on both sides are dominating the debate.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
he's a one man cargo cultist
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
I've been hearing this shite since the 70s, you racist tit. It's a trope and a myth.
jakethesnake
In bed for Britain
A complete cult
newbie
undisambiguated
No of course I don't. Nor do I want Cameron and Osborne. devil/christmas. Tories are dominating because nationalism, sovereignty, migration and 'freedom' from regulation are their preferred stomping grounds. The 'left', with its long history of polemic against the EU, is split with even the most strident voices conscious that the TUC and most unions are for staying in, which makes the case that the working class will definitely be better off out a little hard to argue.
In my opinion you both belong to same bracket F bas*ards. First learn to do debate without using abuse as it's a resort often taken by losers and low life guys.
Learn to swear properly, you fucking bastard cunt.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Way to assume the moral high ground. Your time on these boards has just shortened.
In no way am being racist etc. with anyone. I see all humans first. Then comes working out whose behavior is civil and else wise. To keep eyes open for the safety of civil society. So in the current topic I said that because we need to look at how EU countries who have allowed good no. of migrants that includes people from Pakistan as well are facing various problems. If it was just some economic issues then it was OK. But crimes of the nature that is going on is not acceptable at least to me. If majority is OK with it then great as it's a democracy and I fully support w/o any influence democratic decisions.
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