Tory UK EU Exit Referendum

[stethoscope]

In my opinion if UK won't exit EU now then it holds greater risk of losing it's identity once in 5-10 years middle east asian migrants become dominant force in selecting next govt. It will slowly move towards a semi to fully shariah compliant nation. It might take some 10 years time to show the symptoms to some people.

Oh FFS. Fuck off.

 

[teqniq]

More spirited than mine, but basically. Yeah.

 

[Greebozz]

I don't give a shit and I'm not listening.

Much as I liked him I don't care if we cede sovereignty over the distribution of frozen sheep carcasses or whatever. The stuff that matters, education, health, defence and yes immigration is down to us to solve still.

I see you are someone who appreciates the nuances of political analysis.

 

[stethoscope]

I see you are someone appreciates the nuances of political analysis.

And you can do one too.

 

[stethoscope]

For the hard of hearing, liberals, or assorted racists, the only valid leave is one on pro-worker, pro-socialist, anti-neoliberal grounds. All other leaves, especially the right-wing and immigrant bashing ones, can just fuck the fuck off.

 

[Mr Moose]

All those things that EU neoliberalism is opening up to marketisation and withering away any democratic or public/social ownership and control?


And neoliberalism is really working out well for ordinary people?

A choice between neoliberalism and not is hardly on offer here.

 

[Mr Moose]

For the hard of hearing, liberals, or assorted racists, the only valid leave is one on pro-worker, pro-socialist, anti-neoliberal grounds. All other leaves, especially the right-wing and immigrant bashing ones, can just fuck the fuck off.

Which is why you need to suck it up and vote to remain.

 

[stethoscope]

Which is why you need to suck it up and vote to remain.

Remain isn't pro-worker, pro-socialist or anti-neoliberal either. So why would it be any better to 'suck it up' and remain than leave on those grounds?

 

[stethoscope]

Remain's realistically the most likely to win anyway as it has the overwhelming backing of national and international capital, it'll be how narrow/wide the margin is I think.

The way I see it right now, is that a slim remain will cause problems for the ongoing Tory civil war (and they're on a slim majority), but a leave will not only cause problems for the Tories (again, they're a bit all over the shop right now) but that it could seriously undermine the aggressive neoliberalism of the EU too.

 

[Mr Moose]

sanders and corbyn, mild social democrats though they may be have seen significant support. So perhaps you are wrong mr moose. Litmus for iron corbze was the recent elections and it all went gravy.

I wish I was. This vote looks massively split on class and race though and a big proportion of the electorate is giving a two fingered salute to all things left and progressive.

 

[stethoscope]

(again, this is a lot of supposition from me, I don't really know what will happen for sure in a leave, but its pretty clear what will happen in a remain).

 

[Skyfallsz]

It's a double edged sword

 

[Mr Moose]

Remain isn't pro-worker, pro-socialist or anti-neoliberal either. So why would it be any better to 'suck it up' and remain than leave on those grounds?

Because it's better than leaving on a nationalist agenda. And like I say there is plenty of EU work that is good, good governance. The fact you can travel and work in 28 countries and the same standards for beaches or carbon monoxide safety apply. Because, whatever it's faults it's not irrational. Because we are more likely to prosper.

 

[DotCommunist]

its the we thats a problem here

 

[editor]

In my opinion if UK won't exit EU now then it holds greater risk of losing it's identity once in 5-10 years middle east asian migrants become dominant force in selecting next govt. It will slowly move towards a semi to fully shariah compliant nation. It might take some 10 years time to show the symptoms to some people.

In my opinion you're a racist douchebag. Howzabout that then?!

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Because it's better than leaving on a nationalist agenda. And like I say there is plenty of EU work that is good, good governance. The fact you can travel and work in 28 countries and the same standards for beaches or carbon monoxide safety apply. Because, whatever it's faults it's not irrational. Because we are more likely to prosper.

I've got two questions. What is the likely long term direction of the EU agenda? Under which scenario do you think we have more power to challenge that agenda - inside of the EU or out?

 

[Mr Moose]

It's a double edged sword

Tru dat. Life's just, well flawed frankly.

 

[Santino]

Why do so many people seem to think that the outcome of a referendum determines how the country as a whole will be governed in the next 10-20 years?

 

[stethoscope]

I've got two questions. What is the likely long term direction of the EU agenda? Under which scenario do you think we have more power to challenge that agenda - inside of the EU or out?

See, this is my stumbling block to the 'we are more likely to prosper'. In what way?! The EU will continue to desire and impose onto members states the further opening up of services and industries to the European market, workers rights are already becoming second best to the primary economic objectives of the EU project, austerity will be forced onto members where they don't show fiscal restraint, and there's seemingly fuck all most of us can do about it. Whilst we can do something about our national government and its policies when standing outside of the EU.

 

[gosub]

Definitely starting to since in at the Telegraph :Brexit will make us richer. That's why Leave could still win

Dacre though, wouldn't be able to write "Betrayal!" in a typeface big enough.....

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Why do so many people seem to think that the outcome of a referendum determines how the country as a whole will be governed in the next 10-20 years?

Because inside of the EU the balance of power between labour and capital is skewed much more in favour of capital. Outside the EU we have slightly more power to challenge the encroachment of capital into areas such as the NHS.

 

[brogdale]

Because inside of the EU the balance of power between labour and capital is skewed much more in favour of capital. Outside the EU we have slightly more power to challenge the encroachment of capital into areas such as the NHS.

Interesting.
What basis is there for such faith?

 

[weltweit]

Britain is already in the second EU tier, outside Schengen and the Euro, but remaining in we have a chance to influence the EU project, out and we have none.

I actually thought the video of Tony Benn was interesting, a vote to remain now does not have to be the end of it. If in 20 or 30 years there is the will for it Britain could have another referendum. And I believe Cameron's negotiation included that we have a referendum whenever the EU wants to take new powers in a treaty. So voting in is not for ever but voting out would be.

I am not yet ready to say goodbye to the EU project.

 

[ffsear]

Oh FFS. Fuck off.

wehhhhhhhhhyyyyyyyyyy

 

[stethoscope]

wehhhhhhhhhyyyyyyyyyy

Defending a racist are we? Good look.

 

[Santino]

Because inside of the EU the balance of power between labour and capital is skewed much more in favour of capital. Outside the EU we have slightly more power to challenge the encroachment of capital into areas such as the NHS.

Sorry, that's not what I meant. I meant, why do people think that a vote for Leave means that the racists of the Leave campaign get to run the country and push through anti-worker legislation for the next decade?

 

[pocketscience]

Britain is already in the second EU tier, outside Schengen and the Euro, but remaining in we have a chance to influence the EU project, out and we have none.

There's more chance the Eu will play vindictive silly buggers in the event of a remain vote and strip the UK of even more power in the project. Vote out and the UK holds proportionally way more chips at the bargaining table = more chance to exert influence in the Brexited relationship.
I wouldn't underestimate the influence an out vote can have.

 

[ffsear]

Defending a racist are we? Good look.

nope, i managed to ignore him.

 

[stethoscope]

nope, i managed to ignore him.

Oh that's funny, because in your rush to take a pot shot at me, you've basically made it look like that's more important than calling out the racist poster

 

[ffsear]

Oh that's funny, because in your rush to take a pot shot at me, you've basically made it look like that's more important than calling out the racist poster

its a troll ffs , just ignore it potty mouth