Tory UK EU Exit Referendum
- Thread starter paolo
- Start date
gosub
~#
That ignores the issue entirely and bangs on about immigration.
Its Osbourne and IN (who have the likes of Goldman Sachs on-board) thats just signalled his desire to keep UK housing as a world class global investment. Out -a load of disgruntled pensioners talking to themselves. In -the gruntled face of global corporatism. The younger generation in a vicious circle of not engaging coz there's nothing in it for them, leading to them being taken for granted and not being offered anything.
The 18% figure is daft, but breaking the current system definitely in long term best interests -house prices rising faster than any savings for a deposit. Interest rates would rise -but the 40k of student debt isn't on the same terms as ordinary debt, and that is limited in scope by the banks (who Gideon clearly listens to) who would worry about being stuck with too much junk with borrowers choosing bankruptcy instead.
So that would leave a failing pound. That would actually make us more competitive and more attractive to inward investment and with that comes jobs. Yes, you'd have inflationary pressure as imports became more expensive but if you look at our recordly fucked balance of trade that's something that should be being addressed anyway. Or is the aim to ensure our growing numbers of homeless can have a BMW to sleep in.
Meanwhile the blunder-bus rumbles on blithely informing people that if we trash farming we'll have £350 million a week extra for the NHS -for glucose drips and vitamin tablets presumably. The young? Sorted -they'll all be busy at Glastonbury or the football, or coming home from University, don't worry about them.
Last edited:
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
Unashamedly racist campaigning from the Vote Leave isolationists. Racist scumsuckers that they are.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
So your contention is that when housing is "full" immigration to the UK will stop? Even if true (and it's quite clearly not is it) do you really think that is going to address the concerns many people have about immigration?
I'm finding this all a bit depressing. Was out tonight with some friends who're sound if not very political. They reckon that leave is bollocks because they associate it with Farage/right wing Tories which, to be fair, is very much how it's being presented.
I'm unsure how to vote but said there were perfectly good left wing reasons to vote out. This was the first time they'd ever heard this discussed from anything other than a right-wing point of view. It's fucking rubbish that the narrative on all this is all coming from the Right.
I'm unsure how to vote but said there were perfectly good left wing reasons to vote out. This was the first time they'd ever heard this discussed from anything other than a right-wing point of view. It's fucking rubbish that the narrative on all this is all coming from the Right.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
I thought you were going? You're still here.
youngian
Well-Known Member
Contracts and treaties are easy concepts for grown-ups to understand: if you agree to A you will get B, shake hands, sign a deal and we can all get on with business. Nursery children however cannot sign contracts because they cry, throw down their toys and think everything is about me me me without having the intellectual faculties to see the wider picture.
gosub
~#
I'm not seeing overt racism. Extremely ill advised certainly and I don't get the NHS bit at all, but strip that out, and you could run the same ad in a Turkey were it to start considering it position within NATO.
Each and every one of the EU's 28 states has the unilateral right to block a new members application.
Last edited:
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Of course it's not going to be overtly racist (it's an offical advert) but the racism is pretty clear - look at all these Turks (Muslims) so anti-social they even fight in parliament. It's nasty and Vote Leave can fuck off and die.
That said to pretend that the same doesn't apply to the Remain side is a fiction - after all, many of the same people who are calling this racist are at the same time both insisting Turkey will not (and should not) become part of the EU and giving it cartloads of money to make sure refugees are swept under the carpet.
gosub
~#
High order scum. It was multi frequency dog whistle politics of the very worst kind, and those responsible should be brought to book:
I have come to the conclusion that the establishment put the fix in with the selection of vote Leave, but even with that scope it was utterly reckless.
The fix was to be seen to have played a game the cartoon stereotypical leaver will have regarded as given their best, (though being utterly repellent to everyone else), so that they slink back to the Tories after they’ve lost with their tails between their legs. The missteps are more noticeable if you aren’t one of the cartoon stereotypes, though they do seem to follow IN missteps in short order but dwarf them in magnitude. OUT is doomed by it and the way this mob have control of the OUT narrative.
But it’s the other frequencies that are more interesting (to me). It was a complete overstep of the mark. You could look at the part of the clip with Cameron in Select Committee as a Westminster briefing on a demarcation point of the wheeze, after all we have other relationships with Turkey and it is a significant player (not without its faults) in a geopolitically sensitive area . (But I suppose that would be considered part of the point on either side) By including it, I think, was an internal Tory message this is hardball now….
Though to do so just before the Austrian election..I think we are back in the land of cock up. Had Hofer been elected (thank fuck he wasn’t) any deal over Turkey and the EU evaporates, but more than that NATO’s 2nd largest member starts considering its position. Consequences well above who ever did that video’s paygrade.
The lot of the refugee’s is not an easy one, and in its scale almost weaponised. And I personally think more could and should be done to help not only them but the states that are currently having to shoulder the burden. But in terms of realpolitik Cameron saying Turkey will not become part of the EU is probably true. Germany is more sympathetic than they have been in the past, which is changing the dynamic but that is probably a poison pill for her domestically, and it would require EU unanimity anyway. I’d call it a mess, but its not, it’s a human tragedy.
gosub said:
This bit's particularly interesting to me, because I've been speculating whether or not there's a natural ceiling/limit of interest among the electorate generally concerning immigration. In other words are those repelled by campaigners 'banging on' about immigration outnumbering those to whom it's important?
I'd hope to say there's a significantly greater proportion of those repelled/alienated, but in reality I simply don't know the answer to that question.
Last edited:
gosub
~#
No I wouldn't go that far. Bolt on those for whom immigration isn't a driving issue, rather things like having a viable economy for example.
Its probably too harsh on Cummings & Elliot (vote Leave), to lay the entire blame at their door....The rise of UKIP that chose to ride on an immigration tip never actually developed an exit strategy that it could have kept one eye on as it stirred things up. I can see an the establishment/Electoral commission thinking at time of giving designation "you've stirred it up and harnessed a lot of disaffection..but you've no credible plans for resolution, thanks for that.
Not that Remain has the first clue as to what to do about the the issue.
But this referendum could, at most,have led to the removal on the child proof lock on the issue.
gosub
~#
I’m not my last post fully elaborated.
It’s not cause / effect between economy and immigration, they are intertwined and both have knock on into provision of housing/ healthcare education social cohesion…you name it. So there is an ‘issue’, but those for whom would abandon out of incredulity those who would consider it the primary concern would equally abandon (though probably less so) those whom dismiss the issue as racism or xenophobia. Neither side that looks at thing primarily through those prism can prevail without the support of those for who it is a secondary issue…
And yet the mainstream OUT campaign, when not being vague, when pressed, says it wants an outside Single Market model. Why? Because it must consider that trumps ALL other considerations. That such an option is from where we currently stand is impossible, not just extremely difficult without the 2 year window Article 50 provides, but mathematically impossible in terms of parliamentary arithmetic, yet still they persist. The economics of that type of OUT the most choppy of waters but they have doubled down on it because it is the only one that theoretically tackles immigration. They do that safe in the knowledge that they would never have to deliver, and that in doing so marginalise and alienate those for whom it THAT not the issue..
Why? Well for some its what’s in there heart; others gut move, a chance to retrench support with the great unwashed; others jockeying around prospective next leaders…and yet the one thing you can be sure of is they all know parliamentary arithmetic and they would be screwed if they actually had to deliver, but even then there is little scope now for going ‘off-message’
We are poorly served, this was the one widow of opportunity for an orderly exit ahead of any break down of Europe, though it would have made that a self-fulfilling prophecy. If Europe does survive the storms, our next window - the ‘opportunity’ to be Europe’s Puerto Rico once the house has had the chance to rig the deck. And yet to put to sea in the life boats – we don’t even have a single Captain, potential or otherwise who could open a child proof lock.
Last edited:
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
gosub
~#
It's an odd stitch up to try and get past a bunch who got worked up about democracy, sovereignty and grasped the economic consequences of the EUro.
On 23/6 our 650 elected representatives are our equals, but after that... The one question they aren't being asked, that they are most expert on is 'which of the Brexits stands a chance of going through Parliament?'
teqniq
DisMembered
I found this interesting, I have been wavering between leave and abstain recently, the latter because in all conscience I feel that I cannot give support directly or indirectly to a bunch of racist xenophobic scum, and what they are likely to do here which they will see a leave vote as giving them carte blanche doesn't bear thinking about.
The selective blindness of "lefties" who support Brexit
The selective blindness of "lefties" who support Brexit
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Just the fucking title of that article makes me want to vote out. Just. Fuck. Off.
ffsear
Well-Known Member
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
Yeah but you only think that because you are a lefty.
It strikes me as odd that some seem to believe that we might make progress through a massive victory for the right and it's irrational responses to people's problems. It's the crudest of strategies.
Similar threads
