The Trump presidency

[newbie]

Err, not quite right, wealth flowing to the wrong sort of Americans was also bad. The not real Americans: the foreigners within. Obamacare as redistributing health care to poor (often black) minorities. Liberal elites (often Jews) twisting the US press and profiteering on Wall St. Union leaders destroying American jobs. A principle target was the GOP establishment but the idea is just to supplant it.

This should not be mistaken for class warfare unless of the directed downward kind. The message always was only the Great Leader can fix it and that's very 30s. Magically make it like it was in the good old days. Trump is looking back even further to a period before the New Deal.

all of that, except your weird mention of 'Jews', looks to me like straightforward conservative capitalism, unchanged except for the wallpaper since the c19.

 

[newbie]

I've been using "eurgh!" to describe things I don't like, "eurgh!" is so far not fasched. Armed with "eurgh" we are now well equiped to articulate all sorts of ideas that were previously troublesome and clunky. We can think all the necessary thoughts about class and economics and social matters worldwide using "eurgh!". You're welcome.

but it won't last, poisoning the well of the urban dictionary looks to be pretty simple.

 

[teqniq]

Trump wants to push back against Iran, but Iran is now more powerful than ever

 

[two sheds]

I'm a brit, I don't spell words like that with a 'z'.

My great grandfather spelled words like that with a 'z' in the 1890s I'll have you know and he was British.

 

[newbie]

My great grandfather spelled words like that with a 'z' in the 1890s I'll have you know and he was British.

there's no such thing as a throwaway remark on urban, is there? alright, I'm a Brit living in 2017 and...

 

[newbie]

or isd that dogwhistling for something I don't know about?

 

[two sheds]

there's no such thing as a throwaway remark on urban, is there? alright, I'm a Brit living in 2017 and...

well I'm British and living in 2017 and I spell words like that with a 'z' because if it was good enough for my great grandfather it's good enough for me

 

[Pickman's model]

well I'm British and living in 2017 and I spell words like that with a 'z' because if it was good enough for my great grandfather it's good enough for me

how much did your great-grandfather earn in a week & would you accept the same wages?

 

[Pickman's model]

there's no such thing as a throwaway remark on urban, is there? alright, I'm a Brit living in 2017 and...

so you say

 

[gosub]

Bannon calls his plan economic nationalism. “I’m not a white nationalist, I’m a nationalist. I’m an economic nationalist,” ... “The globalists gutted the American working class and created a middle class in Asia. The issue now is about Americans looking to not get f—ed over. ..I’m the guy pushing a trillion-dollar infrastructure plan. With negative interest rates throughout the world, it’s the greatest opportunity to rebuild everything. Ship yards, iron works, get them all jacked up. We’re just going to throw it up against the wall and see if it sticks. It will be as exciting as the 1930s" (etc etc.)

He can sort out infrastructure which by all accounts is clapped out, but he can't push demand for heavy plant manufacturing. It's already over saturated and the banks are too scared to write down losses from the turkeys.... Maybe make a load of stuff you don't mind getting blown up (bit like the 30s)

 

[treelover]

Scared of Trump fooling with their cheap supply of Asian brains.

A while back some Silicon Valley tech giants were caught running a cartel trying to suppress the talent's wages.

Many of which don't pay their taxes, bet they(their CEO's) are invited to speak at the next big demo though

 

[mauvais]

Because globalisation. He's seeking to overturn that, which means overturning the economics of the last few decades. Isn't that what we call neoliberalism? How can it be overturned and continue at the same time?

I think this an interesting question, and I'm not willing to assert that Trumpism is or is not neoliberalism, but let me ask you a question in return. What state would we have to get to for you to be confident in saying that Trump had overturned neoliberalism? What would it look like?

Would they still be exporting goods and doing business around the world? Would they still be indebted to China, and buying cheap goods from the same? Would they still be accepting useful immigrants, and would offshoring - explicitly or implicitly - still be allowed? Will they go back to primary and second manufacturing even if the country is impoverished as a result? What are the parameters?

Picture whatever scenario it requires, and then tell me whether there is any possibility that we will arrive at it. If so, show how. If not, then how is what's going on more than a fantastical play to nationalists and out of work coal miners, and otherwise business as usual?

 

[treelover]

Bannon calls his plan economic nationalism. “I’m not a white nationalist, I’m a nationalist. I’m an economic nationalist,” ... “The globalists gutted the American working class and created a middle class in Asia. The issue now is about Americans looking to not get f—ed over. ..I’m the guy pushing a trillion-dollar infrastructure plan. With negative interest rates throughout the world, it’s the greatest opportunity to rebuild everything. Ship yards, iron works, get them all jacked up. We’re just going to throw it up against the wall and see if it sticks. It will be as exciting as the 1930s" (etc etc.)

THE JUMPERS OF '29

 

[Pickman's model]

.

 

[two sheds]

how much did your great-grandfather earn in a week & would you accept the same wages?

I don't know, we never discussed money. I'm fairly sure he received more than the average weekly wage so I'd be quids in.

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't know, we never discussed money. I'm fairly sure he received more than the average weekly wage so I'd be quids in.

yeh? let's say he got £50 per month, would you be happy to have that?

 

[two sheds]

yeh? let's say he got £50 per month, would you be happy to have that?

Four months of that you could have bought a house - I could have retired when I was 25.

 

[Pickman's model]

Four months of that you could have bought a house - I could have retired when I was 25.

sadly while what your great-grandfather got might have been good enough for you, in most areas of life things have changed radically and not always for the better.

 

[stockwelljonny]

From front page New York Times article this morning:

"With most of his belongings in New York, the only family picture on the shelf behind Mr. Trump’s desk is a small black-and-white photograph of that boss [his father], Frederick Christ Trump."

What kind of name is CHRIST :-O Its a genetic messiah complex, WE'RE DOOMED!!!!!

 

[Pickman's model]

From front page New York Times article this morning:

"With most of his belongings in New York, the only family picture on the shelf behind Mr. Trump’s desk is a small black-and-white photograph of that boss [his father], Frederick Christ Trump."

What kind of name is CHRIST :-O Its a genetic messiah complex, WE'RE DOOMED!!!!!

lots of people are called jesus but i've never seen you kick up a fuss about them.

 

[teqniq]

 

[belboid]

Many of which don't pay their taxes, bet they(their CEO's) are invited to speak at the next big demo though

and when they don't I'm sure you'll come back her and apologise for talking utter crap

 

[belboid]

From front page New York Times article this morning:

"With most of his belongings in New York, the only family picture on the shelf behind Mr. Trump’s desk is a small black-and-white photograph of that boss [his father], Frederick Christ Trump."

What kind of name is CHRIST :-O Its a genetic messiah complex, WE'RE DOOMED!!!!!

It's his maternal grandparent's surname (the Scottish one). There are still a few of them knocking about even now.

 

[newbie]

I think this an interesting question, and I'm not willing to assert that Trumpism is or is not neoliberalism, but let me ask you a question in return. What state would we have to get to for you to be confident in saying that Trump had overturned neoliberalism? What would it look like?

Would they still be exporting goods and doing business around the world? Would they still be indebted to China, and buying cheap goods from the same? Would they still be accepting useful immigrants, and would offshoring - explicitly or implicitly - still be allowed? Will they go back to primary and second manufacturing even if the country is impoverished as a result? What are the parameters?

This is along the lines of if you don't like xxx you'll have to spell out exactly what utopia looks like. Which is just silly, isn't it?

brogdale made the assertion

Trump's acceleration of advanced neoliberalism

In questioning that I'm not definitively saying I think it's wrong, I'm asking for some explanation of how it can be correct.

Having said which, surely everything you've described has been true, to a greater or lesser extent, of capitalism since C19? Previously enforced by imperial might, latterly by trade agreements and the overwhelming power of 'the markets'?

What aspect of any of your points is uniquely and definitively neoliberal? As opposed to capitalist? I'm seeking to understand- from people who are better read and have greater understanding than I do- whether globalisation is the key component that distinguishes neoliberalism from other economic doctrines.

For some decades capital has been politically encouraged to roam free, seeking labour and resources wherever they are most profitably found, with the promise that consumers benefit from globalised trade. Those decades are coincident with what we call neloiberalism, aren't they?

We're now entering an era where electorates are clearly against protectionism, against free movement, against supranational entities and against overarching trade agreements like TPP & TTIP. If the EU, with its 4 pillars of freedom of movement, epitomises neoliberalism, how can the new era be an acceleration? I don't get it.

Picture whatever scenario it requires, and then tell me whether there is any possibility that we will arrive at it. If so, show how. If not, then how is what's going on more than a fantastical play to nationalists and out of work coal miners, and otherwise business as usual?

That seems to be asking can he (they) deliver? We really will have to wait and see. If the political shift towards restrictions on free movement and protectionism fails- as it might well in our massively interconnected world- then globalisation might reassert dominance. Trumpism might be a minor hiccup in neoliberalism, or might be a disruption before the neoneoliberalist economics of the future.

 

[two sheds]

It's his maternal grandparent's surname (the Scottish one). There are still a few of them knocking about even now.

We're still doomed though

 

[Sirena]

I'm a brit, I don't spell words like that with a 'z'.

"The Oxford University Press, The Cambridge University Press, The Times and American usage, in all of which -ize is the accepted form....." (Fowler's Modern English Usage)

 

[bimble]

That comparison with Herbert Hoover's interesting. Trump was talking about imposing a 45% import tariff on everything from china wasn't he.

 

[newbie]

"The Oxford University Press, The Cambridge University Press, The Times and American usage, in all of which -ize is the accepted form....." (Fowler's Modern English Usage)

well I learn something new and utterly irrelevant every day

 

[gawkrodger]

 

[bimble]

That's it. The truth is what he says it is. Anything he doesn't like is 'fake news'.
Just like all those fake protestors who are getting paid to pretend they don't adore him.