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The Trump presidency

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I think it's bannon pulling the strings, "darkness is good" remember, chaos is good.
I agree. They know exactly what they are doing with this.
A legally-tight, well prepared racist measure would have slid into place with some protest, but wouldn't be dominating the news as this chaos is now. Its a show of power.
Also, to many people in his heartlands international air travel is not an experience they would have had - its totally different to the uk in that respect - so anyone caught up in this who doesn't look like a muslim stereotype can pretty much be cast as metropolitan elite.
 
On Losing Struggle Military Power in an Age of Raiding
...
As someone says in The Big Short: ‘The truth is like poetry. And most people fucking hate poetry.’

In particular, our failure to take Russia seriously, on both sides of the Atlantic, and our illusions about the permanence of the liberal order

Russia as a serious great power, not the ten foot tall monster but neither an inconsequential fading force

In SDSR 2010, the government understandably looked to make savings in the wake of a fiscal crisis. Britain’s credit-worthiness was a strategic priority.

This desire, however, encouraged a wishful assumption that the security environment would be benign, or benign enough, to take a breather and rebuild the economy. Security problems there would be, mostly in the realm of failed states and terrorism. A return of great power rivalries was an unwelcome suggestion.

SDSR 2010 mentioned Russia twice: once about reducing energy demand, and one about general ‘security dialogue.’

Consider, the multiple warning signs that had flashed by 2010:

  • In March 2009, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov warned that NATO enlargement was a source of threat, and that Russia might find gas customers in Asia.
  • In September 2009, Russia’s Zapad Military Exercise rehearsed a clash with NATO around Belarus, spreading and culminating in a first-use nuclear strike on Warsaw.
  • Russia frequently probed Britain’s airspace and offshore waters. The highest number of contacts with Russian submarines since 1987.
  • Russia military doctrine in 2010 designated NATO a source of military danger.
This was not a new Soviet Union or Cold War. It was the return of history. Russia was determined to dominate its back yard, to restore some imperial stature, to oppose Western expansion into its orbit. We can disagree about the wisdom of trade and military expansion into the region. We have no right, though, to be shocked.

Why then, did we miss these signals? Recall that this was the time of gestures, the ‘reset’ button, and high-minded NATO concepts. When Mitt Romney claimed Russia was a geopolitical foe with imperial ambitions, President Obama cheaply quipped that the 1980’s wanted their foreign policy back. Chancellor Osborne scoffed at the suggestion that we should retain kit designed for a clash on the German plains. Security minds assured us that interstate confrontation was an outmoded fallacy.

The state scrapped the Advanced Research and Assessment Group. ARAG’s Russia Analysis Section forecast that Russia with its mixture of subversion, force and propaganda would reassert itself in the Ukraine. Its loss was a blow to our intellectual ability to analyse the region. ARAG had to go, because, in the words of the Commander of Joint Forces Command, ‘the world had changed at that time’ and ‘the decade of campaigning around Iraq and Afghanistan’ overshadowed other things.

Because we wanted a commercial, rules-based peace, combating only guerrilla insurgents of the Third World, we fancied other states did too.
...
Any sensible threat assessment starts from capability of adversaries and then looks to intent. Russian capability always loomed large. There was just an assumption Russia was a permanently beaten down power that could be arrogantly shoved about like Iran. Russia was "a 3rd world country with oil and ICBMs" was a common opinion in 2012. The worst thing we had to worry about was puny but scary Salafi-Jihadis staging the odd murder raid.

Trump even tries to ignore a very dangerous to its neighbours, deranged, North Korea with its nukes because it spoils this clash of civilisations fairytale world. He pushes against China on trade confident they'll back down. The Chinese are the only power with much influence over NorK.

Trump clearly does not share Romney's 2012 position on Russia. What's amusing here is the smugly self blinkered British government fixated on terrorism didn't agree with Romney either a few years ago. That didn't survive a naive Obama being very publicly confronted by Russia that really wasn't afraid to push its luck and close down US options in Syria. An ice bucket challenge for the British security establishment.

This sort of delusional wishful thinking is very common. In a quarter century from the triumphalist Unipolar Moment in 91, via great disappointment in Baghdad to Trump's whiny American Carnage that just assumes Russia will makes nice and China will bend over for him.
 
I agree. They know exactly what they are doing with this.
A legally-tight, well prepared racist measure would have slid into place with some protest, but wouldn't be dominating the news as this chaos is now. Its a show of power.
Also, to many people in his heartlands international air travel is not an experience they would have had - its totally different to the uk in that respect - so anyone caught up in this who doesn't look like a muslim stereotype can pretty much be cast as metropolitan elite.

Its not a show of power - its a show of incompetence. Occam's razor says this is the result of a bunch of ideologically driven bigots with little understanding of legal processes.
 
"Google co-founder Sergey Brin joined the protests at US airports on Saturday. He said he was there because “I’m a refugee.”

Billionaires against Trump.

but don't worry about paying taxes, the new politics incarnate.
 
Lol, this has got legs. It's on nearly 80,000 and when I first saw it about half an hour ago it was somewhere in the 60,000's.

Well past the threshold for being debated in Parliament. Given that Corbyn is advocating cancelling his visit to the UK too, and the huge strong feeling against Trump, I think it will actually be debated for sure and there is a very good chance of him not being allowed in. In fact, I would be surprised if they didn't at least delay his visit until x and y conditions are fulfilled.
 

...
Donald Trump is no George Bush. As the new president said in his inaugural address: “Protection will lead to prosperity and strength.” Unlike President Bush, Trump’s goal is not to implement the least disruptive security measures consistent with the U.S. tradition of openness, but rather to invoke security to shut the United States off to the greatest extent possible. For Bush, the walls built to Mexico under his watch were a necessary deviation from his principles; for Trump, the wall will be a proud symbol of a very different set of principles.

Trump’s announcements are far from a fait accompli, of course. He needs money from Congress to build the wall; big cities like Los Angeles and New York will fight him at every step to prevent deportation of illegal migrants who have not committed other crimes; the State Department and possibly even the Department of Homeland Security will fight against the travel restrictions. American universities, which saw a drop in foreign students after 9/11, will push back, and they have the ear of virtually every member of Congress. The travel industry—the airlines, hotels, and restaurants that benefit from foreign tourists—will also object. The new DHS Secretary General John Kelly expressed skepticism at his confirmation hearing about targeting Muslim nations with new travel and immigration restrictions, and may be a reluctant ally for Trump. Foreign governments will complain vociferously; incoming Secretary of State Rex Tillerson may find many of his working days consumed with soothing hurt feelings around the world.

In my book about the post-9/11 years, The Closing of the American Border, I documented the fierce internal struggles in the Bush administration over the new security measures. There were pitched battles between the State and Justice departments for example, with Secretary of State Colin Powell resisting many of the restrictions being pushed by Attorney-General John Ashcroft. State lost many of the early battles, but ended up winning the war. By the end of the Bush administration, most of the restrictive measures had been removed.
...
Ah, the good old days after 9-11.
 
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I suspect it's both - a feeling out of where their writ extends and what opposition they may encounter. A first move.
Yes:

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I suspect it's both - a feeling out of where their writ extends and what opposition they may encounter. A first move.

You may be right to the extent that the Trump administration will learn from its mistakes in the way a child learns.

But all of this Trump as dark master of the arts is just buying into a cult of personality, really.

Fact is, he's not very bright, his closest advisors lack experience and he believes in no pussyfooting. A recipe for poor governance.

Of course, if you take a view that whatever fuck-ups ensue must be exactly what he planned and whatever chaos surrounds him he must have cleverly engineered to serve his own oblique ends, then he can't fail to be a genius every time.
 
You may be right to the extent that the Trump administration will learn from its mistakes in the way a child learns.

But all of this Trump as dark master of the arts is just buying into a cult of personality, really.

Fact is, he's not very bright, his closest advisors lack experience and he believes in no pussyfooting. A recipe for poor governance.

Of course, if you take a view that whatever fuck-ups ensue must be exactly what he planned and whatever chaos surrounds him he must have cleverly engineered to serve his own oblique ends, then he can't fail to be a genius every time.
There's a reason i said their - not him.
 
A legally-tight, well prepared racist measure would have slid into place with some protest, but wouldn't be dominating the news as this chaos is now. Its a show of power.

It's a show of power but I'm not convinced that a better prepared version would have dominated the news less - at least not at this early stage.

Reasons other than legal floppiness include broad sections of the media having far more interest in covering these protests than they traditionally do. And the number of people who had already been 'well-integrated' into the US & other western countries getting caught up by these measures, the number of personal stories that can be told from day one that go well beyond the traditional narratives about refugees.
 
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I suspect it's both - a feeling out of where their writ extends and what opposition they may encounter. A first move.
Yep, a scattergun approach, see what sticks.

Plus they can play all protests against them as the liberals/swamp getting in the way of a president who just wants to get things done, so hey, might as well just change a few more rules to prevent such pesky things.
 
Its not a show of power - its a show of incompetence. Occam's razor says this is the result of a bunch of ideologically driven bigots with little understanding of legal processes.
Read bannons biography...This people know how the system works, they've been a part of it for years...
 
The democratically elected president of the USA is implementing a policy he was very clear about during his campaign (a temporary ban), the people who voted for him may not all have agreed with this policy, but they still voted for him.

Its interesting to listen to the outcry, but I don't recall such an outcry when Christians, Muslims, Jews and others religious groups were banned from entering these countries just because they happen to be traveling on an Israeli passport, Algeria, Bangladesh, Brunei, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia, Oman, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, United Arab Emirates and Yemen. In addition, Iran, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen haven't just banned people with Israeli passports but also people who have a used or unused visa for Israeli.
 
Increasinglhy convinced the ban on refugees and people from the 7 states wasn't chaotic as the result of incompetence. It was meant to cause chaos. It managed to achieve the following:

- Causing distress and financial loss to people from the 7 countries and vetted refugees, sending a clear message of "you aren't wanted here, piss off."
- Some people with legal residency in the UK were pressured to sign forms renouncing that - a few more black and brown people ejected - yay!
- Protests at airports and good media coverage of this, ensuring it remained the focus for the day. (I think the Trump team was hoping there might be violence as an excuse to push back, so probably disappointed on that score.)
- Disruption to travel arrangements, which many will blame on the protesters, not the executive.
- Although they probably knew it wouldn't hold up, only a partial stay was granted, so at least partial win.
- Gain more brownie poimts with supporters in the "heartland," who are already expressing their delight on social media that Trump is acting fast to protect Americans from terrorists.
- Divert everyone's attention to the BIG action of the day - the executive order re-configuring the National Security Council to members least likely to be politically motivated and making a new seat for the power behind the throne, Steve Bannon.

I'm still not seeing much talk about that last achievement. The president consolidating his personal power over the body that decides on everything from armed conflict abroad to martial law at home is being buried under the avalanche of outrage about the "Muslim Ban." It is outrageous, but it's also a diversion from something very sinister indeed.
 
The democratically elected president of the USA is implementing a policy he was very clear about during his campaign (a temporary ban), the people who voted for him may not all have agreed with this policy, but they still voted for him.

Its interesting to listen to the outcry, but I don't recall such an outcry when Christians, Muslims, Jews and others religious groups were banned from entering these countries just because they happen to be traveling on an Israeli passport, Algeria, Bangladesh, Brunei, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia, Oman, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, United Arab Emirates and Yemen. In addition, Iran, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen haven't just banned people with Israeli passports but also people who have a used or unused visa for Israeli.
Odd not to hear that on this thread.
 
The democratically elected president of the USA is implementing a policy he was very clear about during his campaign (a temporary ban), the people who voted for him may not all have agreed with this policy, but they still voted for him.

Its interesting to listen to the outcry, but I don't recall such an outcry when Christians, Muslims, Jews and others religious groups were banned from entering these countries just because they happen to be traveling on an Israeli passport, Algeria, Bangladesh, Brunei, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia, Oman, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, United Arab Emirates and Yemen. In addition, Iran, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen haven't just banned people with Israeli passports but also people who have a used or unused visa for Israeli.

Is the outcry as regards American policy justified in this case?
 
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