The Trump presidency

[CRI]

Because it didn't, your country is corrupt too fuck, people were ostracised for collective actions.

Pal, it's not "my" country anymore, as I'm not a US citizen anymore.

This is starting to remind me of drunken arguments in the Student Union bar circa 1985!

 

[CRI]

by the steps taken to avoid thinking about it?

Come again?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

. There were socialists elected as such in congress from 1910, representatives in many major cities. They led the general strike from St. Louis, Minneapolis, Seattle...Socialists were massive within dock works, transport, car making. Such was their strength, gangsters were brought in to kick them out and take over those industries. Oh, the irony. Read Farrell Dobbs' Teamsters trilogy, to get a taste of their strength.

I'm not the one arguing that socialism wasn't a part of American history. Of course it was. My position is that socialism hasn't had any longevity in terms of continuing influence or power within American politics or culture.

 

[TomUS]

I haven't heard much talk of the wall for a while.

Perhaps after coming out all guns blazing in his first week he is now being a little more careful.

It's spensive but orange man will drive the cost down somehow.

Building a wall or other barrier along the entire U.S.-Mexico border would cost about $21.6 billion and take up to 3½ years to complete, according to an internal Department of Homeland Secretary document.The estimate is almost double the cost cited by President Trump

Border wall would cost $21.6B, nearly double Trump's estimate

 

[CRI]

just a little thing. These are the original words to Woody Guthrie's song This land is your land :

This Land Is Your Land
Words and Music by Woody Guthrie

This land is your land This land is my land
From California to the New York island;
From the red wood forest to the Gulf Stream waters
This land was made for you and Me.

As I was walking that ribbon of highway,
I saw above me that endless skyway:
I saw below me that golden valley:
This land was made for you and me.

I've roamed and rambled and I followed my footsteps
To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts;
And all around me a voice was sounding:
This land was made for you and me.

When the sun came shining, and I was strolling,
And the wheat fields waving and the dust clouds rolling,
As the fog was lifting a voice was chanting:
This land was made for you and me.

As I went walking I saw a sign there
And on the sign it said "No Trespassing."
But on the other side it didn't say nothing,
That side was made for you and me.

In the shadow of the steeple I saw my people,
By the relief office I seen my people;
As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking
Is this land made for you and me?

Nobody living can ever stop me,
As I go walking that freedom highway;
Nobody living can ever make me turn back
This land was made for you and me.


This, the real version, his intended lyrics, was never recorded, and the now famous one has all the critical words removed, it was turned into america's best loved unofficial national anthem, once sanitised.

For what it's worth, that used to be my "party piece" at Democratic Party rallies when I was five or six and not yet too embarrassed to get up and sing.
(But my mum did make me recite the Lords Prayer for elderly relatives, despite being agnostic herself.)

 

[bimble]

For what it's worth, that used to be my "party piece" at Democratic Party rallies when I was five or six and not yet too embarrassed to get up and sing.
(But my mum did make me recite the Lords Prayer for elderly relatives, despite being agnostic herself.)

With or without the verses about private property and hungry people?

 

[camouflage]

Come again?

Well for instance, in the US workers were more interested in how the wealth was distributed in the form of unions, rather than how the wealth system worked on a more fundamental level, for instance class- as in socialism. That's what it sez on this card I have here anyway. Another example is the New Deal... that was definitely an attempt to avoid socialism wasn't it?

 

[weltweit]

.. Border wall would cost $21.6B, nearly double Trump's estimate

That link is unusable for me, I start to read and a questionnaire comes up, disposing of that leads me to a page of links, the original article is long gone. What a pile of poo ..

 

[belboid]

I'm not the one arguing that socialism wasn't a part of American history. Of course it was. My position is that socialism hasn't had any longevity in terms of continuing influence or power within American politics or culture.

You were agreeing with cri and that made up quote, you were wholeheartedly supporting the idea that socialism hadn't worked because of belief in the 'American Dream'. Bit rich you trying to claim otherwise now

 

[terapija]

I'm not the one arguing that socialism wasn't a part of American history. Of course it was. My position is that socialism hasn't had any longevity in terms of continuing influence or power within American politics or culture.

Cold war politics ...Funny discussion

 

[TomUS]

That link is unusable for me, I start to read and a questionnaire comes up, disposing of that leads me to a page of links, the original article is long gone. What a pile of poo ..

Works fine for me but here's another.
Exclusive - Trump border 'wall' to cost $21.6 billion, take 3.5 years to build: internal report

 

[CRI]

With or without the verses about private property and hungry people?

Without, I'm afraid, although even so, it was a very different patriotic song than say, "God Bless America" or "America the Beautiful." We sang both of those in school, but not the Guthrie one

 

[snadge]

I'm not the one arguing that socialism wasn't a part of American history. Of course it was. My position is that socialism hasn't had any longevity in terms of continuing influence or power within American politics or culture.

Lol, robber barons.

Works fine for me but here's another.
Exclusive - Trump border 'wall' to cost $21.6 billion, take 3.5 years to build: internal report

great, that's cheap at twice the price, build two to make sure.

 

[weltweit]

Works fine for me but here's another.
Exclusive - Trump border 'wall' to cost $21.6 billion, take 3.5 years to build: internal report

Yup reuters link is fine. Thanks.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

You were agreeing with cri and that made up quote, you were wholeheartedly supporting the idea that socialism hadn't worked because of belief in the 'American Dream'. Bit rich you trying to claim otherwise now

I'm not claiming otherwise. To say that socialism hasn't worked in the US, is different from denying that it has existed at some point in American history as a political idea.

 

[DotCommunist]

Do you know how much I learned about American Socialist History in grade school and high school? Zilch, zero, nada, nowt, nothing. I think we got one paragraph about what socialism was and one about communism in high school Government class, but that was it. I remember looking for books on socialism in the high school library for a term paper (I was discouraged from doing a paper discussing this) and guess what, there weren't any. That was in the 70's, and from talking with friends and family members who are teachers now, that's not changed.

So, if Americans aren't taught socialist theory or history in school, if books are hard to come by except in "college towns" or alternative book shops in big cities, if you still have churches preaching socialism as "evil," etc., pray tell, how can socialism have that much influence on American political and social culture?

because it was a material part of that culture through labour struggles, widely read literature and an entire set of countercultures that did NOT start with the american new left.

I got shit all about the british labour tradition in school either, not even peterloo. But I didn't stop reading after I had finished schooling.

 

[TomUS]

great, that's cheap at twice the price, build two to make sure.

A DOUBLE wall......with a mine field in between...cool.

 

[CRI]

Well for instance, in the US workers were more interested in how the wealth was distributed in the form of unions, rather than how the wealth system worked on a more fundamental level, for instance class- as in socialism. That's what it sez on this card I have here anyway. Another example is the New Deal... that was definitely an attempt to avoid socialism wasn't it?

Bingo! Repackage anything with a flavour of wealth distribution or social mobility into something with a "unique" American slant as if it has a whiff of communism about it, no dice.

 

[snadge]

Bingo! Repackage anything with a flavour of wealth distribution or social mobility into something with a "unique" American slant as if it has a whiff of communism about it, no dice.

It was all labeled as communism, it still is, everything that empowered the worker was communism, lackeys and toadspittles in the workplace made sure of that and the grassing, plea bargaining culture was born.

 

[Old Spark]

Flynn,Spicer ,Priebus for the chop.?


Trump avoids Michael Flynn controversy amid rumors of White House shake-up

 

[CRI]

because it was a material part of that culture through labour struggles, widely read literature and an entire set of countercultures that did NOT start with the american new left.

I got shit all about the british labour tradition in school either, not even peterloo. But I didn't stop reading after I had finished schooling.

Good for you, but you still started MUCH further along if there was more than a paragraph in your school book about, say the UK Labour party existing.

I'll probably get shouted at for pissing all over rural, white working class people (although that's exactly where I come from), but there are great swathes of Americans who just don't, wouldn't read about anything like that. They don't know about other "ways" and don't want to know.

I used to think the lack of knowledge and curiosity was due to the limited info they got through TV news - half hour programmes, punctuated by 3 or 4 news breaks, mostly local news with a bit of national, only international if it was something massive. Apart from USA Today, there were no national newspapers, and there was only one newsagent that carried anything but local papers in the county - an area the size of Greater London.

But now there's the internet, and the opportunity to access content from a wide range of sources. Most people where I come from though still watch local news broadcasts like before, and with the advent of cable, the 3 main networks (ABC, CBS, NBC) have been eclipsed, as Fox News was the main news source chosen by Trump voters.

The other thing many here have rubbished when I've mentioned it is the strong influence of fundamentalist Christianity on beliefs and voting patterns. It leads to a very closed, narrow belief system, so people are, I think, genuinely afraid of finding out about alternatives to what they already know. I don't have as much faith in them to change as some of you do.

 

[belboid]

I'm not claiming otherwise. To say that socialism hasn't worked in the US, is different from denying that it has existed at some point in American history as a political idea.

Sorry, where has 'socialism hasn't worked in the us' come from? its not anything you said beforehand in these , nor anyone else on here. You do like to bring in these fallacies whenever you are shown to be talking tosh. Socialism didn't get very far in the USA because it was explicitly broken by the state, not because it been tried and failed.

 

[DotCommunist]

Socialism didn't get very far in the USA because it was explicitly broken by the state

bombed, gunned, corrupted and starved into submission. And not just once eh.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Works fine for me but here's another.
Exclusive - Trump border 'wall' to cost $21.6 billion, take 3.5 years to build: internal report

Is tess mayhem wants to curry favour with Pres Chump, she could volunteer patriotic work cadres to go across build the wall with out new best mates

 

[two sheds]

Socialism didn't get very far in the USA because it was explicitly broken by the state, not because it been tried and failed.

What do you mean "socialism didn't get very far in the USA"? You take that back

 

[ska invita]

and go and read about american socialist history

VersoBooks.com
anyone read that?

 

[CRI]

Meanwhile, in "important things" like Trump shaking hands with leaders of other nations . . .



He started off brilliantly by closing the distance between himself and Trump, meaning that if the president tried to pull him forward, the two would collide—mutually assured destruction. Immediately, he took away his opponent’s greatest strength. Then he engaged Trump in a shoulder grab—a total power move that Trump countered with a shoulder/neck grab of his own. As the two men grimaced at each other, Trump created some distance and went back to old faithful: The grip-and-yank. If you look closely at the 4-5 second mark, Trump tries to tug Trudeau’s arm toward him, but for the first time since he took office, his opponent was ready: Trudeau held firm, resisted the yank, and held his ground beautifully. Finally, Trump tried to squeeze the hell out of his hand and go over the top for leverage, but Trudeau wouldn’t budge. The president gave it one more try, to no avail, and at the 7-second mark he ran out of gas. After exchanging a meaningful look with Trudeau, as if to recognize a worthy adversary, he dropped the Canadian’s hand and beckoned toward the cameras.

In my official ruling, this is a draw, but it’s a stunning, impressive result for Trudeau nonetheless. Just as in European championship soccer, getting a draw on the road is almost like winning, and for Trudeau to perform so admirably on enemy turf is a triumph for all of Canada.

Unfortunately, this probably means Ottawa is getting nuked. But it was worth it to see the first small crack in the armor of the Ivan Drago of handshakes.

 

[coley]

Yes, post screenshots so if the tweet's deleted it doesn't disappear from here

Handy for those of us who don't do twatter

 

[coley]

are you quite mad?

He's secretly hoping his boss is monitoring his posts

 

[spring-peeper]

Meanwhile, in "important things" like Trump shaking hands with leaders of other nations . . .



He started off brilliantly by closing the distance between himself and Trump, meaning that if the president tried to pull him forward, the two would collide—mutually assured destruction. Immediately, he took away his opponent’s greatest strength. Then he engaged Trump in a shoulder grab—a total power move that Trump countered with a shoulder/neck grab of his own. As the two men grimaced at each other, Trump created some distance and went back to old faithful: The grip-and-yank. If you look closely at the 4-5 second mark, Trump tries to tug Trudeau’s arm toward him, but for the first time since he took office, his opponent was ready: Trudeau held firm, resisted the yank, and held his ground beautifully. Finally, Trump tried to squeeze the hell out of his hand and go over the top for leverage, but Trudeau wouldn’t budge. The president gave it one more try, to no avail, and at the 7-second mark he ran out of gas. After exchanging a meaningful look with Trudeau, as if to recognize a worthy adversary, he dropped the Canadian’s hand and beckoned toward the cameras.

In my official ruling, this is a draw, but it’s a stunning, impressive result for Trudeau nonetheless. Just as in European championship soccer, getting a draw on the road is almost like winning, and for Trudeau to perform so admirably on enemy turf is a triumph for all of Canada.

Unfortunately, this probably means Ottawa is getting nuked. But it was worth it to see the first small crack in the armor of the Ivan Drago of handshakes.