8ball
Decolonise colons!
Yep, that's exactly the gamble he's making.
The Leaders' Mass Debate
- Thread starter chilango
- Start date
Yep, that's exactly the gamble he's making.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Are Labour (and I'm just thinking out loud here, so excuse me if I'm way off beam!) planning for a 2nd election here? Allowing the Tories to form a shit minority government, and then bring it down in the hope that a 2nd election will see voters returning from the SNP/PC/Greens?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Interesting idea , but that itself would require some sort of agreement with the nationalists.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Would it? Beyond announcing that they were going to bring the government down, I'm not sure they'd need to discuss very much. Would they?
Anyway, just trying to figure out if there's any logic behind Labour's current posturing.
andysays
Love and solidarity
Can see this - Labour don't have the money to fight another election, so they'd be at an immediate disadvantage.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
No.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
They don't have the cash for a second election. Could they just be confident of an outright victory? The polls don't seem to be even vaguely sure of themselves, and both Labour's relaxed stance and the Tories panic suggest they both know something we don't...
...he hasn't ruled out a "deal" with the Lib Dems yet, has he?
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Together they won't have enough, probably sub 300....he hasn't ruled out a "deal" with the Lib Dems yet, has he?
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Nor indeed with the Tories......he hasn't ruled out a "deal" with the Lib Dems yet, has he?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Seems like this evening's Miliband welcome committee in Glasgow believe he has already...
I'm sure you're right, but there's a load of stuff that doesn't seem to add up to me otherwise.
Ed Miliband isn't some kind of political naif making mistakes and fucking up when he's saying no deals, he's been very precise and consistent about it, for weeks now. He knows that, if he's to do a deal post-election, he'd be crucified for it. He could have left it more open, but didn't, and he hasn't been forced into doing this. It's part of their election strategy.
In which case, what are they doing? The campaign elsewhere has been sure-footed and impressive - I don't believe that in this one area they're just panicking. The only things I can think of are a) they're confident they can form a government without the SNP, or b) they've given up. Neither seem very likely, so maybe I'm missing something...
The Welsh Debate is great, lots of emphasis on social security, inequality, Leanne is compassionate and eloquent, Pippa, who apparently has been derogatory about claimants in the past is very robust in their defence tonight, worth watching.
The Tory sounds a Thatcherite.
The Tory sounds a Thatcherite.
andysays
Love and solidarity
As far as I can see, they can't be confident of forming a govt without at least the active support of the SNP in voting for their QS.
Arguably they can pretty much rely on this without any sort of deal, because if the Tories fail to get a QS through and then Labour do too, that just leaves another election, which I'm assuming would favour the Tories, so I can't see that it's in the SNP's interest that Labour don't get to form a govt.
Plumdaff
joy in people
Pippa is reeling out laudable stock snippets that rarely relate to the questions. Leanne is superb I'd agree and I liked her talking about Labour taking Wales for granted.
I get that - but what he's been saying lately, and particularly last night, would make even getting to that point with the SNP difficult.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I'd imagine this all relates to their focus group/polling in the English marginals. Clearly Crosby's message had got home thoroughly.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Leanne has got a successful model to emulate, and it was significant that, when Sturgeon was dissing Miliband for what she claimed was preferring to lose rather than work with the SNP, she predicted that he would be punished by (former) Labour voter in Scotland and other parts of the United Kingdom.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Yep. It's about the numbers.
ah - so if Scotland is lost to Labour, then take whatever tack is deemed necessary to shore up votes in the marginals?
I'd imagine Miliband is probably pretty relaxed behind closed doors about having a party to the left of Labour holding the balance against the blairites tbh.
I'd imagine Miliband is probably pretty relaxed behind closed doors about having a party to the left of Labour holding the balance against the blairites tbh.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
This idea was discussed on here (can't remember which thread) a bit ago.
At the time I thought no chance. Now I'm still highly, highly skeptical but wouldn't rule it out completely.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
So, is Ed in Scotland to say "no deal with the SNP. I'd rather not govern" again because he hopes it'll go down well with the soft portion of the SNP vote? Or because he's said it now, so he can't back down? Or what?
I've been looking at this all day, and can't work out why they're not going "oh fuck, what have I said?"
Is this actually clever, but I'm too un-dark arts to see how?
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
I think they've just given up on Scotland, and the other heartlands, in the short term and are just concentrating everything on winning the swing voters in Lab-Tory marginals.
They feel that the Tories SNP attack is working with those people and think (wrongly IMO) they can deal with the after effects of the claim later.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Danny I really don't think this is about Scotland at all. I've seen a few TV vox pops in the English battlegrounds in which Lab voters have expressed how concerned they are about "Salmond/Sturgeon having control of our government". I'm pretty sure that their focus group findings also told the same story and terrified them.
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