The Leaders' Mass Debate

[chilango]

What do people mean by "pasokification"?

 

[brogdale]

What do people mean by "pasokification"?

Neo-liberal 'social democratic' party 2009 = 36%, 2014 =8%.

 

[DotCommunist]

If Miliband get's the chance to go back on his word and lead a minority dependent upon the nationalists, the RW press will ensure that this 'broken pledge' will hang around him like Clegg's fees promise.

It sounds like one act in the Pasokification 'play'.

when the possibility of his party letting the fucking tories in rather than vote with the SNP was discussed yesterday thats the word that popped into my head. Surely their strategists must see how that would play out.

 

[DotCommunist]

What do people mean by "pasokification"?

Pasok in greece worked with the greek equivalent of the vermin to lock out syzria, basically lost all cred with their voters, in the end I think only the stalinists (KKE) still supported them

 

[chilango]

Neo-liberal 'social democratic party 2009 = 36%, 2014 =8%.

Ta.

I would guess that Labour allowing (or at least being seen to allow) a Conservative Party that has failed to win the election to form the government - for the second successive election - might face very serious questions about its future viability.

 

[brogdale]

when the possibility of his party letting the fucking tories in rather than vote with the SNP was discussed yesterday thats the word that popped into my head. Surely their strategists must see how that would play out.

Yeah, and what popped into my (beer addled) mind was...if I was a nationalist I'd be tempted to turn around and say..."well OK...fuck you then...we won't even take our seats in your 'so-called' UK parliament" Do a shinner!

 

[brogdale]

Ta.

I would guess that Labour allowing (or at least being seen to allow) a Conservative Party that has failed to win the election to form the government - for the second successive election - might face very serious questions about its future viability.

Yep, and Leanne started to ask those questions last night...

She said: I think what the leader of the opposition has said tonight is highly irresponsible. There are enough of us potentially to band together to stop another Conservative government.

“I would have thought given the people he is meant to represent that that kind of deal would be quite high up on his agenda. Ruling out any kind of deal with the SNP is irresponsible. I would have thought he wold have wanted to work with others to stop the Tories. I’m prepared to do that.”

 

[two sheds]

Successful tactic then all in all, the tories driving a wedge between labour and SNP. Deflects from the much more scary idea of tory/UKIP alliance.

 

[bemused]

Successful tactic then all in all, the tories driving a wedge between labour and SNP. Deflects from the much more scary idea of tory/UKIP alliance.

I can't see UKIP getting enough seats to carry any actual power, they'll get a chunky proportion of the so-called popular vote but won't have more than a handful of seats if they are lucky.

I'm interested how the Labour Party are planning to row back from the no-deal position they have when they try and form a government - I assume the have some slimy words already prepared - along the line of 'best for the country'

 

[two sheds]

"I had my fingers crossed behind my back"

 

[danny la rouge]

Just briefly had on Radio Scotland's morning phone in. There was a Labour voter on saying he hoped everyone in Scotland would vote Labour in the end, but that it didn't look like it was going to happen. He went on to say, that being the case Ed Miliband needs to "draw back from the cliff". He said he was very concerned about what he heard Ed say. He was annoyed that Miliband was saying he'd rather let the Tories in than deal with the SNP. Gary Robertson said that isn't quite what he said, he said he'd rather not be in government. Labour voter replied, what's the difference? He said we need to keep the Tories out, and Ed needs to accept that there will be a majority of SNP MPs in Scotland and he'll have to work with them against the common enemy. "This isn't West Side Story" he said, (refering to the Labour vs SNP mentality Ed had demonstrated) and Ed needs to recognise that.

That's how Labour supporters here are seeing it.

 

[redsquirrel]

Nobody is buying the "we aim for a majority" bullshit. It's really backfiring imo.

Agreed, it's just utterly moronic. I mean I can see that you need to keep on geeing up your team/supporters but you can do that without looking a fucking dishonest spineless berk

 

[chilango]

Agreed, it's just utterly moronic. I mean I can see that you need to keep on geeing up your team/supporters but you can do that without looking a fucking dishonest spineless berk

My guess is that it's just one of those "rules" of electioneering spin that the Parties' strategists are slavishly following.

 

[William of Walworth]

Just been skimming the BBC. Not very clear to me exactly what Ed Miliband said last night re the SNP -- is there a direct quote?

Cheers folks -- in a bit of a rush just now.

 

[8ball]

Just been skimming the BBC. Not very clear to me exactly what Ed Miliband said last night re the SNP -- is there a direct quote?

Cheers folks -- in a bit of a rush just now.

"I am not going to have a Labour government if it means deals or coalitions with the Scottish National Party"

 

[chilango]

Just been skimming the BBC. Not very clear to me exactly what Ed Miliband said last night re the SNP -- is there a direct quote?

Cheers folks -- in a bit of a rush just now.

I am not going to have a Labour government if it means deals or coalitions with the Scottish National Party.

If the price of having a Labour government was coalition or a deal with the Scottish National Party, it's not going to happen.

 

[treelover]

Gonna be a lead weight around him, I understand why he said it, but its inevitable he will have to work with them if labour are to govern.

 

[8ball]

Gonna be a lead weight around him, I understand why he said it, but its inevitable he will have to work with them if labour are to govern.

To some extent he could use them to get progressive policies through since they would need to be careful about voting against such policies.

If he was so inclined, obviously.

 

[danny la rouge]

Just been skimming the BBC. Not very clear to me exactly what Ed Miliband said last night re the SNP -- is there a direct quote?

Cheers folks -- in a bit of a rush just now.

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015...t-be-in-government-than-make-a-deal-with-snp/

 

[DotCommunist]

English labour voters- how do you feel about a rich man who's promised to let us all have another five fucking years of tory bootheel eating rather than work with a party a gnats chuff hair to the left of blairism?

 

[danny la rouge]

And here's Andy Burnham saying a minority Labour administration would "of course" be prepared to talk to the SNP in order to get its business through Parliament.

https://www.politicshome.com/party-...vernment-would-talk-snp-andy-burnham-confirms

So, they'd deal with them, just not do a deal.

Clear?

 

[chilango]

Somebody will have had a major bollocking this morning!

 

[8ball]

So, they'd deal with them, just not do a deal.

Clear?

Actually, it doesn't sound that ambiguous.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

English labour voters- how do you feel about a rich man who's promised to let us all have another five fucking years of tory bootheel eating rather than work with a party a gnats chuff hair to the left of blairism?

Which party is that? Do you mean the single-issue nationalist party, traditionally rightist, which has borrowed anti-capitalist clothes in order to attract former Labour voters? In that case, you'll have to be clearer, as there are two of those in the mix right now - UKIP and SNP. And neither is particularly attractive.

 

[DotCommunist]

Which party is that? Do you mean the single-issue nationalist party, traditionally rightist, which has borrowed anti-capitalist clothes in order to attract former Labour voters? In that case, you'll have to be clearer, as there are two of those in the mix right now - UKIP and SNP. And neither is particularly attractive.

so yes, even in borrowed clothes still a gnats chuff hair to the left of blairism.

note you won't answer the question. with no illusions

 

[Maurice Picarda]

note you won't answer the question. with no illusions

I think Miliband's position is pretty sensible. He could have explained it better last night to the baying mob of mill-owning six-fingered grotesques, but he didn't have ideal circumstances in which to do so.

 

[danny la rouge]

Actually, it doesn't sound that ambiguous.

It'll come across as sly, forked-tongue sophistry. If Ed intended to look like a resolute straight-talker, if Burnham is now right about what he actually meant, then he'll come across as the opposite: a devious, slippery equivocator.

 

[8ball]

It'll come across as sly, forked-tongue sophistry. If Ed intended to look like a resolute straight-talker, if Burnham is now right about what he actually meant, then he'll come across as the opposite: a devious, slippery equivocator.

He will if there is any coalition or power-sharing arrangement. I don't see where Burnham said anything about that happening.

 

[danny la rouge]

He will if there is any coalition or power-sharing arrangement. I don't see where Burnham said anything about that happening.

Well all know that the SNP wasn't offering a coalition; they don't want one. Neither was Labour offering one. Various other formal arrangements were ruled out by each party.

But the fact remains that in order to get their legislation through, there will need to be an arrangement involving the SNP. If Ed is reduced to saying "that's an arrangement, not a deal", he'll look like a slippery twat.

 

[Dogsauce]

baying mob of mill-owning six-fingered grotesques