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The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

philosophical said:
Parts of the village of Sevington in Kent are being concreted over for a lorry park. Locals have seen no plans, pathways have been closed and there has been environmental damage.
According to a story in the Independent a local, Sharon Swandale, says this was never part of the selling and marketing of Brexit.
Kent voted 60-40 in favour of brexit.
A local Kent County Councillor, Tory scum Paul Bartlett who lives next to the construction site says it will bring jobs to the area.
Even if the local environment is damaged, and the whole thing needn't have happened it is already going ahead.
Bartlett said it is a beautiful part of the country to live in but sometimes you've got to take the rough with the smooth.
What smooth?
I personally hope it fucks up more and more of Kent and they are gridlocked and concreted over for decades because they voted for it. I hope the rough is overwhelmingly unbearable and they can cast around for eternity for the never happening smooth.
This is the start of the range of concrete sites Brexit voters willingly invited on.
Click to expand...
and so in your ire what about the 40% who voted against it there then?
 
Pickman's model said:
Except it's there for the rest of the existence of these boards for anyone who wants to see how you behaved and what you said. Deny it as you will, the record speaks for itself
Click to expand...

You already modified 'all and sundry' your very self.
The record above on this thread speaks for itself.
Plain lie.
Own it.
 
philosophical said:
You already modified 'all and sundry' your very self.
The record above on this thread speaks for itself.
Plain lie.
Own it.
Click to expand...
Desperate stuff.

It's very easy for anyone who wants to to go back to your posts of 4 march 2018 and see your first post on brexit where you say that as far as you're concerned everyone who voted brexit was a racist. A range of people, without specifying whether they were leavers or remainers, took issue with this and you said that you believed them all to be brexit voters - which,as you had already said what you thought of brexit voters, meant you thought them all racist. There you have it, anyone who disagreed with you smeared as a racist. And nothing has changed for you, as your painting TopCat as a fan of syl above indicates
 
Pickman's model said:
Desperate stuff.

It's very easy for anyone who wants to to go back to your posts of 4 march 2018 and see your first post on brexit where you say that as far as you're concerned everyone who voted brexit was a racist. A range of people, without specifying whether they were leavers or remainers, took issue with this and you said that you believed them all to be brexit voters - which,as you had already said what you thought of brexit voters, meant you thought them all racist. There you have it, anyone who disagreed with you smeared as a racist. And nothing has changed for you, as your painting TopCat as a fan of syl above indicates
Click to expand...

How many different ways can I tell you you're wrong and lying?
This is what you wrote this evening:
'He's form for such like the time he called all and sundry racist on the basis of er no evidence whatsoever".
I called it out as a lie, it remains a lie, however much you desperately try to modify it.
 
philosophical said:
How many different ways can I tell you you're wrong and lying?
This is what you wrote this evening:
'He's form for such like the time he called all and sundry racist on the basis of er no evidence whatsoever".
I called it out as a lie, it remains a lie, however much you desperately try to modify it.
Click to expand...

Oh god, do we really have to do this?!

www.urban75.net

Is Brexit actually going to happen?

So ignoring subsidies for the moment - if the Uk decided on a zero tariff default set, then the onus would be on the EU to decide if they wanted to reciprocate that. By their own principle of "it's the UKs decision to leave, so the UK needs to propose the solution to the EUUK Border issue, as...
www.urban75.net www.urban75.net

And then myself, butchers, and lots of posters here with sound politics (often with proud anti-fascist/anti-racist activity behind them) wasted an agonising year explaining and advocating leave on grounds of opposing all neoliberal structures as well as on pro-working class grounds whilst you stuck your fingers in your ears and carried on with this pathetic display.
 
stethoscope said:
Oh god, do we really have to do this?!

www.urban75.net

Is Brexit actually going to happen?

So ignoring subsidies for the moment - if the Uk decided on a zero tariff default set, then the onus would be on the EU to decide if they wanted to reciprocate that. By their own principle of "it's the UKs decision to leave, so the UK needs to propose the solution to the EUUK Border issue, as...
www.urban75.net www.urban75.net

And then myself, butchers, and lots of posters here with sound politics (often with proud anti-fascist/anti-racist activity behind them) wasted an agonising year explaining and advocating leave on grounds of opposing all neoliberal structures as well as on pro-working class grounds whilst you stuck your fingers in your ears and carried on with this pathetic display.
Click to expand...
I am aware of many arguments (do you mean after the result? I am assuming you do) advocating leave proposed on here. One of which was the line 'let there be a United Ireland'.
Far from sticking my fingers in my ears I went on ad nauseum about the land border in Ireland. Attempting to point out the practical issues and inviting solutions.
It annoyed many, possibly because their idealism in having a glorious opposition to all neoliberal structures would have to confront the post brexit reality, and in the absence of answers I would be mocked and attacked for asking the question.
If my display was so pathetic, can you recall the practical and realistic solutions suggested that showed up how pathetic my questioning was and sent me on my way?
Your complaint seems to be about persistence, so may I ask of those advocating leave as you put it, what are their realistic and practical solutions to the border created when you leave somewhere?

Edit. Thanks for the link. It clarifies a lot.
My first post started with a question, the first response was to tell me to fuck off.
Very sort of pro working class was that!
Proud activism was it?
 
Last edited:
stethoscope said:
Oh god, do we really have to do this?!

www.urban75.net

Is Brexit actually going to happen?

So ignoring subsidies for the moment - if the Uk decided on a zero tariff default set, then the onus would be on the EU to decide if they wanted to reciprocate that. By their own principle of "it's the UKs decision to leave, so the UK needs to propose the solution to the EUUK Border issue, as...
www.urban75.net www.urban75.net

And then myself, butchers, and lots of posters here with sound politics (often with proud anti-fascist/anti-racist activity behind them) wasted an agonising year explaining and advocating leave on grounds of opposing all neoliberal structures as well as on pro-working class grounds whilst you stuck your fingers in your ears and carried on with this pathetic display.
Click to expand...

Did anyone direct him to the referendum threads from the time of the referendum? Coz it didn't go down here the way it did elsewhere
 
philosophical said:
I wasn't a member here at the time of the referendum but after the result.
Click to expand...

I saw that, from clicking through stethoscope's post.
I voted Leave, argued for it quite a bit at the time tbf I thought it would turn out different, but then if you had told me prior to the referendum that last few years would go the way they would - I wouldn't have believed you. Still,l I object to being called a cunt by someone willing on a crisis which you have done in the course of this recent derail. In case you hadn't noticed we already are in crisis, as is much of the world and pulling tantrums about how it would all be so much better if we hadn't taken that turning at the roundabout four fucking years ago, what a futile waste of pixels to have to scroll past
 
gosub said:
I saw that, from clicking through stethoscope's post.
I voted Leave, argued for it quite a bit at the time tbf I thought it would turn out different, but then if you had told me prior to the referendum that last few years would go the way they would - I wouldn't have believed you. Still,l I object to being called a cunt by someone willing on a crisis which you have done in the course of this recent derail. In case you hadn't noticed we already are in crisis, as is much of the world and pulling tantrums about how it would all be so much better if we hadn't taken that turning at the roundabout four fucking years ago, what a futile waste of pixels to have to scroll past
Click to expand...

You are right I am willing on a crisis over brexit. I have previously explained my reasons why.
Isn't it equally futile to focus antipathy on me for doing so, rather than focus on the events you helped to bring about?
The genie is out of the bottle and it is not down to me if you feel frustrated you can't put it back in.
 
philosophical said:
You are right I am willing on a crisis over brexit. I have previously explained my reasons why.
Isn't it equally futile to focus antipathy on me for doing so, rather than focus on the events you helped to bring about
The genie is out of the bottle and it is not down to me if you feel frustrated you can't put it back in.
Click to expand...

The direction this has gone has been as much shaped by those grieving ther loss in the referendum if you ask me. That said I was unhappy with the ways of the official campaign prior to the vote, but this is an established mature forum. And it was a long long fight to actually get a referendum We had a lot of blowins, sone lasted some didn't but the discussions here weren't astroturfed, and the views expressed here were rational - what has actually happened since defied reason.

Keeping genies in bottles is cruel and would probably contravene some welfare regulation somewhere.
 
philosophical said:
Sigh.
All and sundry implies if you like everybody who voted leave and everybody else as well.
pickmans models statement was a plain lie.
Click to expand...

No harm in backing down.

Admitting that you were wrong and made stupid statements about voters doesn't mean you lose face.

I was very wrong about Brexit. And way too generalized and intransigent about leavers.

Realising, often painfully, just how wrong I got it has been immensely helpful and revelatory.

Give it a go.
 
krtek a houby said:
No harm in backing down.

Admitting that you were wrong and made stupid statements about voters doesn't mean you lose face.

I was very wrong about Brexit. And way too generalized and intransigent about leavers.

Realising, often painfully, just how wrong I got it has been immensely helpful and revelatory.

Give it a go.
Click to expand...
I am sort of unclear what you mean.
If you mean back down and say that pickmans model's lie was the truth well that is a bit 1984ish isn't it?
Not only did I not say what he said I said, whatever the interpretation of any implications contained in a question, I didn't not not say it about all and sundry. Not only am I saying he lied , but whilst talking interpretation 'all and sundry' is a term shoved in there to indicate I am unable to differentiate.
Additionally it was the statement of your common or garden bully attempting to garner support from others.
So if you mean back down and declare his lie was the truth it is as I say an exhortation to follow the 1984 thing where Winston Smith is pressured to say two plus two is five.
If on the other hand you are saying I should back down from being too generalised and intransigent about leavers then that is a tough ask for me. As well as thinking being under the EU system is better than being under the sole UK system, my intransigence regarding those who voted leave is because they hitched up with the Tories in the main, they can't handle the details of leaving particularly the Irish question, and they have opened the door to increased racially based incidents directly impacting my family and others I know.
If I am wrong to hold that position I am yet to be persuaded. It certainly would be a revelation if it turns out brexit wasn't a Tory initiative, there is a good solution to the situation in Ireland, and my perception that there has been an increase in racial tension is imaginary.
 
Pickman's model said:
You said you thought (without adducing any of your actual evidence) that posters who disagreed with you had voted brexit

And you'd been very clear what that meant you thought of them.
Click to expand...
Sheesh are you still trying to justify your lie?
I asked a question at the very beginning of my first ever post.
That question was not about all and sundry.
If I saw a toddler cycling on the pavement in Lewishan and mentioned it, I wouldn't be saying all and sundry in Lewisham cycle on the pavement.
You lied about me, plain and simple, if you can't deal with it then the problem is yours.
 
philosophical said:
I am sort of unclear what you mean.
If you mean back down and say that pickmans model's lie was the truth well that is a bit 1984ish isn't it?
Not only did I not say what he said I said, whatever the interpretation of any implications contained in a question, I didn't not not say it about all and sundry. Not only am I saying he lied , but whilst talking interpretation 'all and sundry' is a term shoved in there to indicate I am unable to differentiate.
Additionally it was the statement of your common or garden bully attempting to garner support from others.
So if you mean back down and declare his lie was the truth it is as I say an exhortation to follow the 1984 thing where Winston Smith is pressured to say two plus two is five.
If on the other hand you are saying I should back down from being too generalised and intransigent about leavers then that is a tough ask for me. As well as thinking being under the EU system is better than being under the sole UK system, my intransigence regarding those who voted leave is because they hitched up with the Tories in the main, they can't handle the details of leaving particularly the Irish question, and they have opened the door to increased racially based incidents directly impacting my family and others I know.
If I am wrong to hold that position I am yet to be persuaded. It certainly would be a revelation if it turns out brexit wasn't a Tory initiative, there is a good solution to the situation in Ireland, and my perception that there has been an increase in racial tension is imaginary.
Click to expand...

There will be always beef but that can be eventually learnt from. Is it really necessary to stir it up, surely its over cooked at this stage?

Nobody is saying that the increase in racism hasn't happened. But at the same time, that's not down to the entire leave demographic.

And Brexit, that admitted shambles, has given the opportunity for a free Ireland and Scotland. Every cloud, and all that...
 
philosophical said:
Sheesh are you still trying to justify your lie?
I asked a question at the very beginning of my first ever post.
That question was not about all and sundry.
If I saw a toddler cycling on the pavement in Lewishan and mentioned it, I wouldn't be saying all and sundry in Lewisham cycle on the pavement.
You lied about me, plain and simple, if you can't deal with it then the problem is yours.
Click to expand...
You asked a question if you were right in your beliefs about people who voted brexit

I have not said the question was about all and sundry

What happened next is you saying you thought everyone who disagreed with or questioned you had voted brexit - and were therefore in your eyes racist. You don't know how they'd voted. You didn't bother asking. Hell,you called me racist and I voted remain. That's you calling all and sundry racist
 
If you're saying my desire for brecit
krtek a houby said:
There will be always beef but that can be eventually learnt from. Is it really necessary to stir it up, surely its over cooked at this stage?

Nobody is saying that the increase in racism hasn't happened. But at the same time, that's not down to the entire leave demographic.

And Brexit, that admitted shambles, has given the opportunity for a free Ireland and Scotland. Every cloud, and all that...
Click to expand...
If you're suggesting my desire for Brexit to be as bad as it can possibly be is stirring I see it differently. If in some quarters Brexit is framed as successful itwill be a victory for theTories in my view.
If there is a United Ireland then that is a step forward and it might be on the cards if brexit voters are challenged (and then fail to answer) about the land border.
I see the increase in overt racism as a danger.
 
philosophical said:
I am sort of unclear what you mean.
If you mean back down and say that pickmans model's lie was the truth well that is a bit 1984ish isn't it?
Not only did I not say what he said I said, whatever the interpretation of any implications contained in a question, I didn't not not say it about all and sundry. Not only am I saying he lied , but whilst talking interpretation 'all and sundry' is a term shoved in there to indicate I am unable to differentiate.
Additionally it was the statement of your common or garden bully attempting to garner support from others.
So if you mean back down and declare his lie was the truth it is as I say an exhortation to follow the 1984 thing where Winston Smith is pressured to say two plus two is five.
If on the other hand you are saying I should back down from being too generalised and intransigent about leavers then that is a tough ask for me. As well as thinking being under the EU system is better than being under the sole UK system, my intransigence regarding those who voted leave is because they hitched up with the Tories in the main, they can't handle the details of leaving particularly the Irish question, and they have opened the door to increased racially based incidents directly impacting my family and others I know.
If I am wrong to hold that position I am yet to be persuaded. It certainly would be a revelation if it turns out brexit wasn't a Tory initiative, there is a good solution to the situation in Ireland, and my perception that there has been an increase in racial tension is imaginary.
Click to expand...
You are unable to differentiate

Take me saying you ignore what people say. You replied about how you've never put anyone on ignore. Not what I said at all. You respond to what you think people have said and not what they have said.

And on another point you have great goes at people with long and proud records of fighting racism and fascism. I don't know what you've done to stand up to racists and fascists but some of us were at Welling and Waterloo in the early 90s, at the '92 bloody Sunday march attacked by c18, involved with afa, no platform, antifa and other anti-racist and anti-fascist groups over the past 30 years or more. Yet you abrogate to yourself the right to decide who is racist, not on the grounds of any actual knowledge of the person but on what you feel about them. That's really really stupid.
 
Pickman's model said:
You asked a question if you were right in your beliefs about people who voted brexit

I have not said the question was about all and sundry

What happened next is you saying you thought everyone who disagreed with or questioned you had voted brexit - and were therefore in your eyes racist. You don't know how they'd voted. You didn't bother asking. Hell,you called me racist and I voted remain. That's you calling all and sundry racist
Click to expand...
Not at all.
What you wrote yesterday evening was a plain lie.
Now you're doubling down by inventing more stuff.
All and sundry is everybody.
Not that difficult to understand that term is it?
It really is amusing if you say that if something happens to you it happened to all and sundry.
 
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