Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

Um, ethics? Ever heard of that before?
I began my efforts to buy ear second hand years before I gave up making part of my living playing music. It's nice to know it was some kind of magical, superhuman effort that's far too hard for mere mortals to achieve. You know, rather than just being a moral and ethical decision that anyone could make.
But you're just an amateur dabbler not a professional. Who are you to tell actual working professionals who need to have rock-solid gear they can rely on, tour after tour, what they should use?

I've bought second mixers from reputable sourced and some have been fucking shit. One was so bad it could have lost me an important paying gig. So I bought a new one backed by a warranty, which I had to later use.
 
Rational change choices, like I don’t know, I want to get a new toaster that works, those when you have achieved them it’s really easy to say yes that solved my problem and my life is better now.
The more meaningful changes that you long for for non-simple reasons, for reasons more in the sphere of emotion and visions of a different future, like leaving your partner or job or moving to a different town, those are never as easy to predict or to say afterwards yep that solved my problem / fulfilled my hopes are they.
I mean, just saying as kabbes was that life must now be better due to brexit for everyone who wanted to brexit for deeply felt reasons to do with identity and hopes rather than basic practical stuff just doesn’t make sense does it. Those changes can sometimes be really disappointing cos your hopes aren’t met at all.
 
Yes, thanks for that. So you're saying that people who need critical gear for their job should just retire and wait until someone dies, loses interest or downsizes?
no, if i was saying that i would have said something along the lines of people who need critical gear for their job should just retire and wait until someone dies, loses interest or downsizes. i was responding to your 'there'd be no secondhand hand gear if people didn't buy new gear', and pointed out three sources of gear arriving on the secondhand market without new gear being bought. and obvs you don't need to wait for this to happen because it happens every day.
 
no, if i was saying that i would have said something along the lines of people who need critical gear for their job should just retire and wait until someone dies, loses interest or downsizes. i was responding to your 'there'd be no secondhand hand gear if people didn't buy new gear', and pointed out three sources of gear arriving on the secondhand market without new gear being bought. and obvs you don't need to wait for this to happen because it happens every day.
This is painful.

However you spin it, someone clearly has to buy new gear for second hand gear to exist.

:facepalm:
 
What various people are saying, editor, is that Brexit is bigger than VAT charges on imported goods, and no amount of examples of it is going to change that.
Yes, I am aware of this. I just gave an example of what happened to a friend of mine as it was topical.

I kind of expected people to express sympathy and move on, but apparently it's all his fault, he's a supporter of sweatshop regimes and it's wrong to by anything new.
 
This is painful.

However you spin it, someone clearly has to buy new gear for second hand gear to exist.

:facepalm:
someone has to at some point in the past have bought anything for used clothes, books, furniture etc to exist. but as i read it (and only now do you differ with me) you meant the only source of secondhand gear is when people trade up and buy new stuff. this should have been obvious when i said ' there are other sources of secondhand gear than simply people casting off after upgrading'. that was the point for you to bring up this facile point. if it deserves to be aired at all.
 
I mean, just saying as kabbes was that life must now be better due to brexit for everyone who wanted to brexit for deeply felt reasons to do with identity and hopes rather than basic practical stuff just doesn’t make sense does it. Those changes can sometimes be really disappointing cos your hopes aren’t met at all.
We’re one month in. What more do you expect at this point?
 
What various people are saying, editor, is that Brexit is bigger than VAT charges on imported goods, and no amount of examples of it is going to change that.

Also from my personal PoV in this particular context, that the wellbeing of workers in poor countries is of some importance.


I kind of expected people to express sympathy and move on, but apparently it's all his fault, he's a supporter of sweatshop regimes and it's wrong to by anything new.

This black-and-white thinking does nobody any good (though I'm sure you've discovered it's great for clicks...)

Oh, and buying gear has ethical implications. Nobody's laying down the law there or even being especially judgemental (though tbh you make it hard not to be, since you are so very, very often) but surely these are to be considered, at least? I mean it's fucking 2021, not 1970.
 
It's actually quite accurate (see the other thread)

Cross thread beef? Surely not.
Oh, you missed the bit where I was a working musician till 2012. The past is another country though I guess. One with terrible import tariffs, by the look of it.

And now, I'm going to try and back the fuck off. This is all off-topic and the back-and-forth is bad news for my post count / reaction score ratio :mad:
 
Brexit gave the UK the freedom to enter into procurement arrangements of our own which is why we are so far ahead of the EU in getting our vaccine.
Incorrect. EU countries are free to negotiate their own separate contracts with vaccine manufacturers and some have chosen to do so.

We are ahead because huge sums of public money were pumped into the development of particular vaccines and rolling reviews were conducted. All of which was done whilst we were in transition and thus subject to any applicable EU regulations.
 
It's actually quite accurate (see the other thread) but I'm sure he appreciates your backing.
it's by no means accurate as someone who has spent years working as a musician can't honestly be described as a dabbler. on your terms then all former footballers are now amateur dabblers in the game. putting people like ian wright or eric cantona on the same basis as sunday league footballers on hackney marshes in their knowledge and skill of the game. darcy bussell now an amateur dabbler at dance, as she no longer graces the stage at the ballet.
 
We’re one month in. What more do you expect at this point?
I had thought it was your case that most people who voted for Brexit were better off in some sort of psychological or spiritual way, regardless of material changes to their situation.

If you're really just saying that those material changes only matter once their impact is felt, then this seems much less controversial.
 
You said

Now you’re saying maybe they’re not happier now but might be, contingent on various things happening, in the future?
Sadly, some of the things that might be making them happier right now are based on lies, such as the lie that the UK is ahead of the game on vaccines because of brexit.

I suspect we're going to hear a lot more of this kind of thing. Examples of stuff that would not have been possible inside the EU that actually would have been possible inside the EU. There's a long tradition of this kind of bullshit, after all. Straightening our bananas.
 
You said

Now you’re saying maybe they’re not happier now but might be, contingent on various things happening, in the future?
I’m not sure how you get that. I’m saying that achieving their aim of Brexit is positive for them. Beyond that immediate positive effect, what more could you possibly expect from just one month’s separation from EU oversight?
 
yeah, Andertons for one.

Yup. Bax music also has good prices. I bought some synths from them last year and no problems at all, warranty on everything etc.

Nothing's ever quite as cheap as Thomann or Woodbrass, but with all this brexit shite that edge is gone.
 
I’m not sure how you get that. I’m saying that achieving their aim of Brexit is positive for them. Beyond that immediate positive effect, what more could you possibly expect from just one month’s separation from EU oversight?
It seems a bit like you are saying that people who wanted a thing are pleased now they have got it.
 
I had thought it was your case that most people who voted for Brexit were better off in some sort of psychological or spiritual way, regardless of material changes to their situation.

If you're really just saying that those material changes only matter once their impact is felt, then this seems much less controversial.
This whole interpretation is one predicated on your ideological understanding of what people do and should want from political change. It’s not a case of being right or wrong, it’s just trying to measure apples using oranges.
 
It seems a bit like you are saying that people who wanted a thing are pleased now they have got it.
Right. That’s not so controversial, surely? And yet it seems to be hard to grasp by people who can’t get to grips with the idea that anybody could have wanted that thing in the first place.
 
Im not aware of experiencing less happiness now in any noticeable way, due to brexit happening. So it can’t follow that directly that the people who voted the other way 5 years ago are happier as a result can it?
 
Im not aware of experiencing less happiness now in any noticeable way, due to brexit happening. So it can’t follow that directly that the people who voted the other way 5 years ago are happier as a result can it?
This is not how to understand the way in which others construct their world, however tempting it might be.
 
Back
Top Bottom