The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[bimble]

Answer bimble?

Roll eyes. You said it was mandatory. It wasn’t. It’s shit that all those countries seem to have chosen the wrong thing by joining in, including the one my old parents live in. I’m sad about that.

 

[kabbes]

As I said, I’m less interested in the question of whether Britain truly materially benefited from its ex-EU position regarding vaccines, as I feel this misses the point. Nevertheless, you can’t on the one hand argue that it’s best to be part of the EU superstate and then say that the best benefits of this are derived by refusing to take part in the superstate’s joint initiatives.

 

[editor]

Yes, I thought so.

And despite the fact I owe no explanation at all, let me add the last time I bought new electronic equipment was in 2006 and it was an applemac powerbook. Since then I've made a point of only buying second-hand gear (including laptops) and encouraging every musician / producer / dj I know to do the same. Last brand new instrument I bought was a Lakewood guitar hand-made (they claim at least) from sustainable forest wood.

So 'righteous', maybe - even 'self-righteous' - but 'hypocrite', no. I get that you're angry and lashing out but I think you're better than this.

Phone? TV? Fridge? And even secondhanded stuff uses the same sweatshops. Or do you have special non-sweatshop sourced components?

Having a go at professionals buying the right gear for their job really is pathetic, particularly when it's an investment that's likely to last them ten years or more. Plus, second-hand mixers can be the root of a fucking ballache of problems, so I'd never be so pompous as to have a go at someone for buying reliable new gear that is critical for their job.

And I'm pretty sure I'd have some fucking sympathy for hard up musicians/DJs suddenly having to shell out crippling extra costs on essential gear.

 

[mojo pixy]

Emigrate.

I personally can't emigrate, for a variety of reasons. If there were some socialist paradise somewhere that welcomed all comers, I might consider it, but I still have a child in full-time education for the next ten years. So I'm stuck here .. trying to build a mobile guillotine without the neighbors noticing

 

[Pickman's model]

I personally can't emigrate, for a variety of reasons. If there were some socialist paradise somewhere that welcomed all comers, I might consider it, but I still have a child in full-time education for the next ten years. So I'm stuck here .. trying to build a mobile guillotine without the neighbors noticing

why not try and enlist their assistance?

 

[editor]

No it’s consistent throughout his posts. What about the musos and BTW you are all bigots and stupid.

I'd appreciate a few quotes where I've called people 'bigots' and 'stupid' please.

 

[mauvais]

The various sociopaychological papers I’ve been reading that are trying to get at the answer to the question. I posted a few earlier but there’s a lot more out there — the social drivers of Brexit has been quite a hot topic, you know.

For the purposes of this at least, I don't give a shit what drove Brexit, I'm interested in what that's turned into now that it's happened. You're seemingly trying to talk about feelings like identity-based anxiety that led into this debacle without inspecting whether those feelings have subsequently been validated, challenged or anything else by events.

 

[mojo pixy]

Phone? TV? Fridge?

Also second hand, and I don't own a TV.

even secondhanded stuff uses the same sweatshops.

This is just disingenuous rubbish really.

Having a go at professionals buying the right gear for their job really is pathetic, particularly when it's an investment that's likely to last them ten years or more. Plus, second-hand mixers can be the root of a fucking ballache of problems, so I'd never be so pompous as to have a go at someone buying reliable new gear that is critical for their job.

Who's ''having a go''? That's your speciality, not mine. I'm just saying that the more of us buy brand new, sweatshop-made gear, the more it will go on being made. One person boycotting that shit has not a lot of impact, but 1000 people, 10 000? Maybe more.

Anyway, I'm not interested in getting into a poisonous little spat with you. You were wrong to call me a hypocrite, I can only suppose that seeing 'hypocrisy' everywhere makes it easier to indulge in yourself. Whatever.

 

[editor]

. Last brand new instrument I bought was a Lakewood guitar hand-made (they claim at least) from sustainable forest wood.

It's great that you can afford hugely expensive handmade guitars, but many people just need to find cheap, reliable gear that's hopefully going to last them a lifetime. And in some areas - like mixers, CD decks etc - buying second hand gear can prove to be a false economy. And I speak from considerable experience here.

 

[butchersapron]

That is concrete. Whatever you place the emphasis of “important” on is an ideological construction. Your preference for what is important means that there are no concrete benefits from your perspective but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist for others. What is more concrete than how you relate to the world? Do you not feel hurt in a concrete way from being severed from Europe? You certainly give every indication that this is a concrete injury to your sense of place.

I already posted a paper that identified a proportion of the population as being characterised by their representation of Europe as being a worrying cultural force undermining their sense of identity. Again, just because this is nonsense from your own ideological perspective, doesn’t mean that also applies to those who think differently.


Right. Just as you felt good about being in the EU despite the hurt of others who hated it (and who struggled in material ways as a result of it, unless you deny a single such person existed).

This - and the related posts - is/are spot on. A few months back lbj claimed that if it weren't for the virus there would be pro-remain riots and millions on the street. (I'm not picking on him here, this just stuck in my mind and i thought was pretty emblematic). I immediately thought, what on earth are you on about?- this is not a world i recognise at all. We live in different worlds. Not because of brexit though.

 

[mojo pixy]

It's great that you can afford hugely expensive handmade guitars

I saved for nearly a fucking year to buy it ffs.

And in some areas - like mixers, CD decks etc - buying second hand gear can prove to be a false economy. And I speak from considerable experience here.

It can, if you're not careful and if you don't know what you're looking for / at. I've never been burned on used equipment, 'and I speak from considerable experience here'.

 

[kabbes]

For the purposes of this at least, I don't give a shit what drove Brexit, I'm interested in what that's turned into now that it's happened. You're seemingly trying to talk about feelings like identity-based anxiety that led into this debacle without inspecting whether those feelings have subsequently been validated, challenged or anything else by events.

The question was this

But who do you think is having a better time so far due to brexit though, or will be soon if not quite yet.

I checked what was meant by “better time” and got the answer:

I’d take any definition of having a better time tbh.

Well, if you want to understand who is having a better time, you first have to understand the motivations and priorities of those who might be having that better time. And yet this is apparently considered irrelevant by you and so many others.

 

[TopCat]

Roll eyes. You said it was mandatory. It wasn’t. It’s shit that all those countries seem to have chosen the wrong thing by joining in, including the one my old parents live in. I’m sad about that.

So there was no pressure then from the EU commission?

 

[editor]

Also second hand, and I don't own a TV.



This is just disingenuous rubbish really.



Who's ''having a go''? That's your speciality, not mine. I'm just saying that the more of us buy brand new, sweatshop-made gear, the more it will go on being made. One person boycotting that shit has not a lot of impact, but 1000 people, 10 000? Maybe more.

Anyway, I'm not interested in getting into a poisonous little spat with you. You were wrong to call me a hypocrite, I can only suppose that seeing 'hypocrisy' everywhere makes it easier to indulge in yourself. Whatever.

If people didn't buy new gear there'd be no second hand gear. And as I've tried to explain to you, sometimes it works out more financially prudent to buy new gear.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The question was this


I checked what was meant by “better time” and got the answer:


Well, if you want to understand who is having a better time, you first have to understand the motivations and priorities of those who might be having that better time. And yet this is apparently considered irrelevant by you and so many others.

Qualitatively different from a material problem being experienced due to brexit, whether that's some aspect of your job that's been affected, your needing to register as a settled alien national, or whatever problem it may be, large or small. Very different from something that exists inside your head but is not characterised by any real-world phenomenon.

 

[mauvais]

Well, if you want to understand who is having a better time, you first have to understand the motivations and priorities of those who might be having that better time. And yet this is apparently considered irrelevant by you and so many others.

I understand (to some extent) who might have expected to be having a better time based on what they sought to happen. I'm just asking you to demonstrate that they are now having it, because I suspect they're not, in anything but the extremely short term.

 

[editor]

I saved for nearly a fucking year to buy it ffs.

And how would you have liked it if you had to save for another three months because an arbitrary hefty tax had just been stuck on it?

But you're just proving my point anyway and contradicting yourself: sometimes - for whatever reason - it's necessary to buy new gear.

 

[mojo pixy]

If people didn't buy new gear there'd be no second hand gear.

So that's how you justify supporting sweatshop manufacture. ''Other people do it''? Well ok.

 

[butchersapron]

This, of course, is where the far-rights criticisms of capitalism producing the homo economicus - the subject concerned only with rational profit and economic maximisation is making serious inroads. People ain't that.

 

[mojo pixy]

And how would you have liked it if you had to save for another three months because an arbitrary hefty tax had just been stuck on it?

Then I'd have done that ffs.

But you're just proving my point anyway and contradicting yourself: sometimes - for whatever reason - it's necessary to buy new gear.

eh, not really, no.
Edit .. I suppose ''for whatever reason'' includes being able to show off the nice new (not used!) thing to mates? My considerable experience tells me this is a major motivator behind buying brand new gear. Seen it again and again.

 

[kabbes]

Qualitatively different from a material problem being experienced due to brexit, whether that's some aspect of your job that's been affected, your needing to register as a settled alien national, or whatever problem it may be, large or small. Very different from something that exists inside your head but is not characterised by any real-world phenomenon.

It wasn’t my question, though, and I double-checked from the asker of the question what was meant by “better time”. There is a proportion of the population that are happier now, which definitely comprises a “better time”. I think it’s worth understanding why.

 

[editor]

So that's how you justify supporting sweatshop manufacture. ''Other people do it''? Well ok.

I've made no mention of 'supporting sweatshop manufacture. although it's almost inevitable than you and I will have goods sourced from such industries.

The mixer in question is an Allen & Heath, btw.

 

[editor]

Then I'd have done that ffs.



eh, not really, no.

As well as a non-touring musician are you a working DJ playing big gigs too? What makes you think you can tell people what gear they need?

 

[Pickman's model]

If people didn't buy new gear there'd be no second hand gear.

there are other sources of secondhand gear than simply people casting off after upgrading. people die, their gear is sold. people downsize, their gear is sold. people lose interest, their gear is sold

 

[editor]

there are other sources of secondhand gear than simply people casting off after upgrading. people die, their gear is sold. people downsize, their gear is sold. people lose interest, their gear is sold

Yes, thanks for that. So you're saying that people who need critical gear for their job should just retire and wait until someone dies, loses interest or downsizes?

 

[editor]

I saved for nearly a fucking year to buy it ffs.

How much did it cost?

 

[TopCat]

Yes, thanks for that. So you're saying that people who need critical gear for their job should just retire and wait until someone dies, loses interest or downsizes?

He just said that word for word the bastard.

 

[mojo pixy]

As well as a non-touring musician are you a working DJ playing big gigs too? What makes you think you can tell people what gear they need?

Um, ethics? Ever heard of that before?
I began my efforts to buy gear second hand years before I gave up making part of my living playing music. It's nice to know it was some kind of magical, superhuman effort that's far too hard for mere mortals to achieve. You know, rather than just being a moral and ethical decision that anyone could make.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yes, thanks for that. So you're saying that people who need critical gear for their job should just retire and wait until someone dies, loses interest or downsizes?

You've got a bike, haven't you?

 

[mojo pixy]

How much did it cost?

Oh it was really really

hugely expensive

I'd be more specific but I've a feeling there's some toxic little dig in the offing, so I'll leave it thanks.