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The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

This isn't new no but while it was far from perfect, EU legislation did have some effect especially in large multinationals where its often easier and cheaper to follow at least the words of the laws rather than get creative about bending them. Just because some people were shat on despite the spirit of the legislation is no reason to get rid of it so even more people can be shat on legally.
Employers didn't need to get that creative about getting round the 40 hours thing, they just needed to ask job applicants to sign a waiver saying that they were willing to work more than 40 hours a week, and that's just what many did.
 
Not quite looking onwards but this is a really good interview with Philip Hammond about brexit and what happened in government at the time:

'David Davis in particular had this very crude 1980s approach to negotiation. I know David quite well, I knew him before I went into politics – David’s backstory is that he was the trouble-shooter for Tate & Lyle. When there was a problem, they sent David Davis. Shut down a refinery, fire a load of people, get rid of the troublemakers: the bare-knuckle fighter. That’s how he liked to see himself. David Davis’ approach to negotiation is you slap it on the table, you lean across, and you eyeball them. If they don’t give way immediately, you say, ‘I’ll see you round the back.’ That was always his view on this. ‘We’ve got the money, they want our money, so we wave a cheque at them then we stick it in our back pocket and we say, ‘Right, show us what you’ve got’. In the end, they’ll want our money. They’ll want access to our market. How long is this going to take, 15 minutes? Give me 15 minutes in a room with these people. I’ll sort them out.’ That was his view of the world, and it was widely shared among the Brexiteers.'

:D
 
Employers didn't need to get that creative about getting round the 40 hours thing, they just needed to ask job applicants to sign a waiver saying that they were willing to work more than 40 hours a week, and that's just what many did.
I was asked many times, I refused and yes I appreciate I was in a privileged position and many people would find it harder to do than I did. The problem was never the EU legislation it was UK governments that were less than enthusiatic about enforcing it.
 
In that case, all those who identified negative affect as a result of being anxious that the EU were acting as cultural imperators are better off.
So nothing concrete then. Just 'I feel better now'?

And 'anxious'? Really? Who felt anxious about the UK being in the EU?

ETA: And given that there have been concrete negative effects for many people, those whose hearts are warmed by the glow of brexit are in a pretty nasty state of mind, I would think. I'm alright. It hasn't negatively affected me. My feels are more important than your struggles. More than that, my feels aren't negatively affected by your struggles. I still feel great despite knowing that you're suffering.
 
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I strongly suspect once enough people start to think that Scottish independence may about to become a real thing, there will be an unseemly rush to relocate to Edinburgh

Turning back the clock. The DUP have shot themselves massively in the foot here, they seemed to have supported Brexit because Sinn Fein opposed it without thinking their position through. An error further compounded by the fact that once he had got his massive majority, BoZo sold them down the river without a thought. Guess no matter how much they may deny it, they can see the writing on the wall same as everyone else.
Same with the numbnuts threatening the staff at the customs post, what do they think they can achieve? That the EU/UK will sit down and completely renegotiate the deal to suit them? If companies can't get their products into NI because of lack of customs facilities, they will just stop sending them. Anyone care to take a guess where their NI customers will then turn to as a source.
A united Ireland can happen out of this mess.
 
I’ve never known a job contract in my industry (which is full of multinationals) that didn’t have a waiver for the 40 hours maximum.

In care work, most organizations ask employees to sign one of these. The way they err sell it is to say something like "Well if you don't sign it then you can't work more than 48 hours a week, it won't be legal for us to let you, and what about if you need the extra money eh?" And because the hourly wage is (usually) less than £9 per hour (48 x 9 = 432 at best, less after tax & NI), most people sign.
 
I read above a brexit supporter characterising the situation as a 'mess'. Yet brexit supporters say they knew what they were voting for. Maybe it was a roundabout cunning plan after all to create a 'united Ireland'. Not something on the ballot paper. Or maybe it is a kind of self delusion where they voted brexit without any clue or care regarding the Irish border, but they try to frame subsequent events as something they really planned all along.
 
#drippingwithrighteoushypocrisy
excuse me? hypocrisy? feel free to explain that one...
<fuckall>

Yes, I thought so.

And despite the fact I owe no explanation at all, let me add the last time I bought new electronic equipment was in 2006 and it was an applemac powerbook. Since then I've made a point of only buying second-hand gear (including laptops) and encouraging every musician / producer / dj I know to do the same. Last brand new instrument I bought was a Lakewood guitar hand-made (they claim at least) from sustainable forest wood.

So 'righteous', maybe - even 'self-righteous' - but 'hypocrite', no. I get that you're angry and lashing out but I think you're better than this.
 
In that case, all those who identified negative affect as a result of being anxious that the EU were acting as cultural imperators are better off.
That post made me laugh a little bit but seriously, that’s it? That’s the only attempt at an answer that anyone’s going to do? :(

What if a person had “identified negative affect as a result of being anxious about EU imperatorism” back in 2016 but now they have a real life problem like nobody wants to buy their eels.
Are they they better off or not?
 
I was asked many times, I refused and yes I appreciate I was in a privileged position and many people would find it harder to do than I did. The problem was never the EU legislation it was UK governments that were less than enthusiatic about enforcing it.
With regard to the 40 hour rule specifically, the UK gov agreed an opt out for that particular piece of legislation, so it was perfectly legal for an employer to ask/effectively demand that potential employees signed the waiver.

I too was asked many times, and mostly I signed, because I feared if I didn't I wouldn't get the job.

Unsurprisingly, the employers who didn't asked me to sign usually had a strong union presence and it was that, rather than UK or EU legislation which ensured workers had reasonable working conditions.
 
So nothing concrete then. Just 'I feel better now'?
That is concrete. Whatever you place the emphasis of “important” on is an ideological construction. Your preference for what is important means that there are no concrete benefits from your perspective but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist for others. What is more concrete than how you relate to the world? Do you not feel hurt in a concrete way from being severed from Europe? You certainly give every indication that this is a concrete injury to your sense of place.

And 'anxious'? Really? Who felt anxious about the UK being in the EU?
I already posted a paper that identified a proportion of the population as being characterised by their representation of Europe as being a worrying cultural force undermining their sense of identity. Again, just because this is nonsense from your own ideological perspective, doesn’t mean that also applies to those who think differently.

ETA: And given that there have been concrete negative effects for many people, those whose hearts are warmed by the glow of brexit are in a pretty nasty state of mind, I would think. I'm alright. It hasn't negatively affected me. My feels are more important than your struggles. More than that, my feels aren't negatively affected by your struggles. I still feel great despite knowing that you're suffering.
Right. Just as you felt good about being in the EU despite the hurt of others who hated it (and who struggled in material ways as a result of it, unless you deny a single such person existed).
 
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That post made me laugh a little bit but seriously, that’s it? That’s the only attempt at an answer that anyone’s going to do? :(
We’ve only had a month, what else did you expect?

I could also point out that those who won’t now die as a result of receiving a vaccine that would not have had one had Britain still been in the EU are also better off. But that is actually to still play the game on the field of material benefits. And if you think that is the reason a lot of people voted for Brexit, you’re really missing the point.

What if a person had “identified negative affect as a result of being anxious about EU imperatorism” back in 2016 but now they have a real life problem like nobody wants to buy their eels.
Are they they better off or not?
Yes to both parts of that question.
 
I thought everyone agreed that despite what Johnson said the UK’s vaccine rollout could have progressed exactly the same without brexit. Is that not true?
No, it could have been approved just the same. But being involved in the EU procurement program would have had consequences.

You’re focusing on the wrong part of the answer though, despite me explicitly pointing out that this is the wrong part of the answer when I wrote it.
 
The wilful blindness to what underlay the very different reasons that different groups voted for Brexit is quite incredible. If people didn’t vote for Brexit out of a belief that it would bring material benefits, why are you looking for them to expect material benefits as their reward post-Brexit?

This isn’t even a controversial thing to consider. Is everything you do only because you think it will make you money? Do you never spend money despite knowing this will impoverish you? Why do you do this?
 
Spending money on some shit that doesn't actually improve your life - which you pretty much knew when you bought it - doesn't make you 'better off' though, does it?
 
It’s clear to me that the people that laugh at Brexit voters being clueless regarding the benefits of being in Europe are just as clueless about the detriments of being in Europe from the perspective of those they are laughing at. I’d say it’s a case of completely talking past each other but it’s not even that, because they aren’t even sharing a common space to do the talking in.
 
I already posted a paper that identified a proportion of the population as being characterised by their representation of Europe as being a worrying cultural force undermining their sense of identity.

The Brexit racist contingent
 
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