Plus put it on expenses
The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion
- Thread starter brogdale
- Start date
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Indeed, and Pickman's proposed solution, which would have made it easy for Cameron to come back with crumbs and claim they constituted "reform" would have been about as good as not bothering with a referendum at all, for those voters.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
The whole question amounted to the preferred veneer of 'democracy' stuck on the neoliberal, consolidator state. You can argue the strategy all you want, but the 'rules of the game' remain constant.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
if you recall he did come back with crumbs and claim they constituted reform.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
no, no he can't. he blusters away like he always does.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I like 'what ifs' . What do you think would have happened if Cameron hadn't promised a referendum
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
He wouldn't have lost the referendum.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Yes, and then the nation voted Leave.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
No shit
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I don't know. Unlike pickman's model I don't claim to be some kind of political mastermind who is way better at knowing what to do than a multitude of prime ministers. But I don't think it would have led to a worse outcome than pickman's model's rubbish suggestion.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
it's always good to see you show you don't know what you're talking about.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i don't claim to be some sort of political mastermind.
tbf you don't need to be some sort of political mastermind to know better what to do than a multitude of prime ministers.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
It was you who invited us to channel Mystic Meg
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Raheem
Well-Known Member
You're exaggerating Cameron's competence.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
I'm not sure about that. The EU leaders totally cunted off Cameron at the time.
A bit of respect (to the UK) and some reasonable concessions at that time would have diffused a lot of the built up resentments.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Nah, the EU, as an institution is in a better position post-Brexit than it would have been if it had offered Cameron the sorts of concessions it would have taken. By now, half a dozen countries would have pulled the same stunt, and the EU would have ended up a husk.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
they cunted cameron off because he turned up without anything to back him up
theodore roosevelt, the american president, famously said 'speak softly and carry a big stick'
cameron had at most a twig and so no one heard his soft speaking
if he'd done the obvious thing, had a referendum and then gone he'd have outmanoeuvred farage as there'd have been the referendum (do you want to remain in an unreformed eu), he'd have a big mandate to wave in front of the french and germans, and it wouldn't have looked like the british had sent baldrick.
in addition, by having a referendum before asking if he could have some concessions cameron would have made it more difficult, not less, for other countries to get the same because referenda are a fucking headache.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
TBF I am not sure they could have - after all, almost all the issues on the doorstep were more down to the actions of the UK Government rather than the EU.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh but what always happens in those circumstances is the leader looks for a foreign policy success. obvs ideally a war. but in the absence of a handy war he could win, cameron might have thought he'd outfox those wily eu leaders. and as so often in his administration he showed himself totally unsuited to the challenge
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
indeed - even if he had forced and won concessions he'd have then faced the insurmountable political difficulties of someone saying that he'd done what he promised, to bring home the bacon.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Tbf, the UK already had a great deal, vetos, rebate etc. They decided to draw a line.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
you'd send him to the shops for bacon and he'd bring back gammon if you were lucky.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
he went there without any reason for them to give him anything. they didn't need to draw a line. they chucked him a few peanuts and watched him perform.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
What sort of concessions were you thinking of?
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Well, what was offered and was apparently derisory what the "handbrake", the ability to have temporary suspensions to free movement of people. Acceptable would have presumably been something that effectively ended it permanently.
not-bono-ever
meh
Maybe the real treasures of Brexit were the friends we made along the way
gosub
~#
Happy fish!
Similar threads
- Poll
