The 2024 UK General Election - news, speculation and updates

[kabbes]

You can’t say what Reform would have had under PR because we don’t have PR. In some ways, that’s a problem for them. It’s hard to get people to vote for you if you have no chance of winning. But in other ways, it helps them. Any party aiming at 15% nationally under PR would need to present 90 credible candidates and a meaningful manifesto, which would be subject to much more scrutiny. An ‘advantage’ of being a minority party under FPTP is that everybody knows you’re just a protest vote. People can register their protest and not worry too much about what you really stand for. It’s a natural home for the 5% of people that are complete headbangers and the 10% who don’t pay any attention to politics and just want to shout into the void.

On top of all that, if vote share mattered then all the other parties would change their tactics accordingly.

In short, I don’t know what vote share Reform would have got if we had PR but I can guarantee it wouldn’t have been the same vote share.

 

[ska invita]

We had a referendum on PR in 2011.
There was a resounding no. 67.9%

We didn't. It was on AV . I would vote for PR I voted against AV, which is even less democratic the FPTP in my opinion

 

[Lord Camomile]

I'd be interested to see a model if we did have PR here. I assume Reform would have a lot more than 4 seats

Have to assume a number of other parties would have a lot more seats, too.

There will be a lot of votes not cast for smaller parties precisely because of the system they're voting in.

 

[Petcha]

Is right wing Twitter gloating about their four seats or ranting about the democratic deficit and Reform’s stolen landslide? Anyone braved the cesspit yet?

No idea, cant bring myself to look at twitter today

 

[gosub]

DUP's Ian Paisley Jnr loses Northern Ireland seat as party suffers ‘bigger than seismic’ election defeat

Ian Paisley jnr suffers historic loss as Northern Ireland election results see party suffer

www.irishtimes.com

 

[Petcha]

Have to assume a number of other parties would have a lot more seats, too.

There will be a lot of votes not cast for smaller parties precisely because of the system they're voting in.

Yep, the Greens would surely have more than two. The coalitions they form in NZ are bonkers but far far more democratic than this archaic simplistic system. But hey, it stopped Farage from having 90 racists sitting in the commons so fair dos.

One other interesting little ditty is that because there are so many Labour MPs now, loads will have to be sitting behind the leader of the opposition during PMQs which is basically the only time the chamber is full. Crazy times.

 

[Wilf]

Anyway if England get 1/3 of the goals tomorrow, they win? Yeah?

 

[RevolutionSound]

We had a referendum on PR in 2011.
There was a resounding no. 67.9%

We had a referendum on AV. Which, as I understand it, is not PR.

 

[moochedit]

Is right wing Twitter gloating about their four seats or ranting about the democratic deficit and Reform’s stolen landslide? Anyone braved the cesspit yet?

I've seen a couple of facebook moans about it

 

[Lord Camomile]

Have said it before, but no government since at least WWII would have passed the thresholds set for industrial action in essential services.

So if you don't get enough members voting to strike, no-one can, but even if more people don't vote for a party than do, they can still govern the entire country.

Because, democracy!

 

[cupid_stunt]

Yep, the Greens would surely have more than two.

As they did today, they got 4 seats.

 

[Rob Ray]

Anyway if England get 1/3 of the goals tomorrow, they win? Yeah?

The total eligible voting base of the UK is something like 50 million, so it's actually 1/5 or so.

 

[Petcha]

We had a referendum on AV. Which, as I understand it, is not PR.

Explained here. But it wasn't very well explained to the great British public from memory.

https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/was-there-a-referendum-on-proportional-representation/

 

[redsquirrel]

Blair in 97 was genuinely popular and had a broad manifesto and policy agenda, albeit very centrist. People felt hopeful, and the economy was doing well. He got 43% of the vote share.

Starmer.............

On a turnout above 70%

 

[Petcha]

As they did today, they got 4 seats.

Virtually everyone I know seems to have voted Green, knowing full well they had no chance. Under PR their votes would actually have counted.

 

[moochedit]

Objectively then, Reform can feel a bit hard done by really. Don't get me wrong I definitely do not want them to have any seats at all, but democratically our system is pretty fucked. Again, objectively.

Yes system is unfair. It just happens to fuck reform more than the anti tory vote this time round which is a nice change but it could do the reverse in other elections.

 

[A380]

Anyway if England get 1/3 of the goals tomorrow, they win? Yeah?

Well they have got less goals in the tournament so far than some teams that have gone home

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yes system is unfair. It just happens to fuck reform more than the anti tory vote this time round which is a nice change but it could do the reverse in other elections.

The main point to make about the unfairness of the system is not that it is unfair to this party or that party. It is that it is unfair to voters.

 

[Petcha]

Yes system is unfair. It just happens to fuck reform more than the anti tory vote this time round which is a nice change but it could do the reverse in other elections.

It's just crazy that we effectively only have a choice of two parties, who are very similar really, three at a push. Time to change that shit. And this time educate people about what it actually involves. From memory they really didnt publicise the details much.

 

[moochedit]

The main point to make about the unfairness of the system is not that it is unfair to this party or that party. It is that it is unfair to voters.

Agreed. But unfortuanately a lot of people do see it in "best for my party" terms.

 

[Silas Loom]

The main point to make about the unfairness of the system is not that it is unfair to this party or that party. It is that it is unfair to voters.

You’d still whine about unfairness and your wasted vote if we had PR and your preferred Sons of Mithras party ended up as the most junior partner in a coalition with the Crown Loyalists, with only one poxy department to run and no chance of putting thumbscrews on the chancellor.

 

[gosub]

Yes, it’s long been forecast they’ll lose 30 seats. You need to remember the SNP has been the ruling party in Scotland since 2007. And my god have they fallen from Grace.

Almost feel sorry for Swinny...what a hospital pass

 

[moochedit]

It's just crazy that we effectively only have a choice of two parties, who are very similar really, three at a push. Time to change that shit. And this time educate people about what it actually involves. From memory they really didnt publicise the details much.

Agreed. I think the fact they are so simalar these days means the "only we can beat x. A vote for y means a vote for x" argument doesn't scare people like it used to.

 

[kabbes]

FPTP has many shit features but I’m not under the delusion that a country ruled by PR would suddenly become egalitarian, equal or enlightened. It would basically be the same, but the arguing would happen in slightly different rooms.

 

[Lord Camomile]

You’d still whine about unfairness and your wasted vote if we had PR and your preferred Sons of Mithras party ended up as the most junior partner in a coalition with the Crown Loyalists, with only one poxy department to run and no chance of putting thumbscrews on the chancellor.

It'd still be fairer and more than what the Sons of Mithras have now.

And I think you underestimate the many creative ways there are to put thumbscrews to whoever...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Fucking hell. I'm going to have to have a media blackout for a while. Switched on World Service and after snippets from Starmer and Sunak, it talked about international reaction, mentioning two people: first Zelensky and second the chief of NATO.

I guess at least they didn't have Netanyahu saying how great it was.

 

[spitfire]

Rees Mogg gone!

Been asleep.

 

[danny la rouge]

Almost feel sorry for Swinny...what a hospital pass

I mean, the SNP richly deserved their trouncing. What a shit show they’ve been. But on a human level, he seems a decent man. Will he take the flack given he’d only just taken the helm when the election was called? Who knows. But his party is on its knees. There will be unsightliness.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

FPTP has many shit features but I’m not under the delusion that a country ruled by PR would suddenly become egalitarian, equal or enlightened. It would basically be the same, but the arguing would happen in slightly different rooms.

I don't quite agree. While it would not in and of itself solve anything it would potentially open up space for political movements with representation that would make fewer people feel disenfranchised by the system. A Spain-style split on the left would be a distinct possibility, and probability imo - under PR, Labour would split.

 

[Silas Loom]

Fucking hell. I'm going to have to have a media blackout for a while. Switched on World Service and after snippets from Starmer and Sunak, it talked about international reaction, mentioning two people: first Zelensky and second the chief of NATO.

I guess at least they didn't have Netanyahu saying how great it was.

Good. The job of the BBC World Service should be to discomfort Putin.