Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Star Trek: Discovery

Just tell a story in the universe that already exists and stop fucking about with alternate timelines and mirror universes.

This, really. Star Trek being what it is I expect a certain amount of temporal / dimensional fucking about sooner or later, but to make it a major plot thread on the very first season? Fuck that, that's not why I ever liked Star Trek. It betrays a tragic lack of imagination IMO, making a blatant deus ex machina into a central plot point from the word go. ''Hey, now we can do whatever we like and just say Oh it's because of the alternate spore universe...'' Yawn.
 
My mate has this problem, and I tell him to just let it fucking go.

It's 2018, you can't make a show now and make it look like something from the 1950s. Technology has moved on in the real world, we just have to accept the subtle changes and move on and use our imaginations to fill in the blanks. It's TV at the end of the day.

However, it does annoy me they decided to do another prequel. Trek needs to move on beyond Kirk and co, and even Picard. Let's move on, another 80+ years from TNG. Let's deal with the aftermath of Romulus destruction in the prime timeline just before Spock jumped into the Kelvin timeline. New species, new tech. That's what I really hoped for when they announced a new series.
Eps 7 and 8 of Star Wars prove you can still retain the feel of a fictional universe even if you're working with far superior tech than the original.

My interpretation is that for those who like Trek they're more than just 'subtle changes'. Also, fancier tech has fuck all to do with the themes of the show, such as optimism and, *ahem*, discovery. Yes, Discovery is being made in a different cultural climate, but you could still write something that develops on the original rather than ignores it.

I say all this with a very limited understanding of ST, so couldn't really back up the argument with evidence, just don't think "technology has moved on" really addresses many of the concerns fans have with Discovery.
 
Eps 7 and 8 of Star Wars prove you can still retain the feel of a fictional universe even if you're working with far superior tech than the original.

My interpretation is that for those who like Trek they're more than just 'subtle changes'. Also, fancier tech has fuck all to do with the themes of the show, such as optimism and, *ahem*, discovery. Yes, Discovery is being made in a different cultural climate, but you could still write something that develops on the original rather than ignores it.

I say all this with a very limited understanding of ST, so couldn't really back up the argument with evidence, just don't think "technology has moved on" really addresses many of the concerns fans have with Discovery.
I agree with this. Whatever you think about the Star Wars films, I think most would agree that all 9 films so far clearly come from the same universe (give or take a couple of small continuity errors).

I'm not saying you should go back to how things looked in the 60s, but TNG was set far enough ahead of the Original Series, that it looking vastly different, didn't immediately jar when watching it. Indeed, during flashbacks/time travel etc. the details of the original series and films were still faithful, such as Trials and Tribble-ations, Yesterday's Enterprise, Relics etc. You could believe that all of TOS, TNG, DS9 and Voyager were set in the same universe.

The new films fucked that, and now Discovery is doubling down on the incongruity between the universe that Star Trek has always inhabited, and the one they're claiming it exists in now. It just doesn't feel like the same story and the same universe. You couple that with the deeply troubling pessimism of Discovery and the fact that we're now onto our third different version of the same time period (Original, Kelvin and Mirror universes), and it just comes across as something that isn't what made Star Trek popular, across all of its first four TV incarnations.

I'm watching it because I love Star Trek, and I desperately want it to be good, but nothing so far fills me with hope that it's going to come back on course. They need to bin it off and set a new series after the Dominion war.
 
I'm fine with the look of the thing to tell the truth. I was watching TOS on Netflix the other day, the ship's made of washing up bottles and there's a yeoman handing the captain paper readouts from the computer. I don't think anyone needs that.
 
I know what Strung outs saying on how it doesn't feel tonaly start trek. The Orville feels more like a Star Trek in some ways. But with dirty jokes. I don't mind too much tho, I'm just assuming it'll find its feet in series 2
 
I'm fine with the look of the thing to tell the truth. I was watching TOS on Netflix the other day, the ship's made of washing up bottles and there's a yeoman handing the captain paper readouts from the computer. I don't think anyone needs that.
Yeah, it would be a huge mistake to try and recreate something that looked contemporaneous to the Original Series. But on a show that's 50 years old, telling stories spanning 200 years, in a universe that is virtually boundless, it seems to me deeply conservative to go back to 10 years before the start and try to make something that fits into that story, and is bound to feel completely different.

Anyway, I know I'm putting a proper downer on things - I just want to explain why this show feels so wrong to me and other Star Trek fans, and go some way to explaining the incongruity between the critics ratings and the audience ratings.

For what it's worth, I do think it's fabulously well made, with good performances and decent enough stories (albeit a bit too obvious).
 
I'm fine with the look of the thing to tell the truth. I was watching TOS on Netflix the other day, the ship's made of washing up bottles and there's a yeoman handing the captain paper readouts from the computer. I don't think anyone needs that.
Again, you can improve the production values without sacrificing the tone and overall look of the show, just like Force Awakens and Jedi(II) did - both those films retained the 'feel' and aesthetic of the original trilogy while using superior tech to produce it.

I'm pretty sure most people aren't arguing for shit effects.
 
I know what Strung outs saying on how it doesn't feel tonaly start trek. The Orville feels more like a Star Trek in some ways. But with dirty jokes. I don't mind too much tho, I'm just assuming it'll find its feet in series 2
Yeah, this series is bascially the setup for getting Michael set up as Captain for next season.
 
whoa whoa whoa what's all this stuff about Lorca?
The Voq/Tyler bit was obvious from the outset - massively telegraphed.
but I failed to spot anything about any evil Lorcas. What? How? He did smile weirdly at the end, granted, but how are people getting that he's from a mirror universe? He's ruthless, but what else?

So here's the 'evidence' (whether you think it's evidence or batshittery is up to you):

The main thing is the brief glimpse of the computer read-out in the last episode before Christmas. There's a screenshot of it on the last page (or the one before that). They're making their 100+ spore jumps to get the klingon data, and there's a nice little list of numbered jumps with the coordinates of each one, and then there's a line that says "Override: Captain Lorca" and the next jump has the coordinates listed as 'Unknown'. That's the jump to the mirror universe. The inference being that Lorca jumped them there.

Dotcom's expert reading of the eyes thing: Lorca's had eye issues throughout the series, can't look at bright lights, has to take drops, etc. In the most recent episode, Burnham said, in a totally throwaway line about the mirror universe, "even the light is different here." The inference being that Lorca has mirror universe eyes, which is why he has some issues with them in our universe.

Entirely circumstantial, but at the beginning of the series a lot of people generally thought Lorca was very un-Starfleet-like. His penchant for collecting other species and displaying them like trophies seems rather Terran Empireish. He's even got the skeleton of a gorn. For an example of people speculating that Lorca is a shady dude you can read this article which came out very early on in the season. Obviously they got the Mudd stuff wrong, but it's evidence of people feeling that Lorca wasn't what we'd expect of a typical Starfleet captain.

Once you start thinking about it, lots of little things fall into place. Like why he'd want to bring the tardigrade on board and why he'd be a-okay with using it for the spore drive despite its discomfort. That in itself is very un-Starfleet-like.

Mirror Lorca disappeared after his failed coup against the Emperor. (So did mirror Burnham—I'm excited for that story.) If he somehow used his spore drive tech to attempt the coup, and failed, and found himself in our universe either by design or as the result of an accident, a person so driven to attempt a coup on the most powerful person in the most powerful empire would presumably continue to think of ways to get right back on that. It makes logical sense that, having worked out he's in a mirror universe (our universe) he does exactly what our Disco crew do when they end up in the Terran mirror universe—take the place of his mirror self and try to blend in for his own ends. The ends being, in Lorca's case, to develop the spore drive tech in our universe to a) get him back to his universe, and b) perhaps see if it can be improved upon to make sure his second coup attempt doesn't fail.

His little grin when the Emperor comes on screen is the icing on the speculation cake.

This might all be bollocks. But until proven otherwise, it's totally canon.
 
at the beginning of the series a lot of people generally thought Lorca was very un-Starfleet-like
Also, when he had Admiral whatsherface over to his quarters, he let her do all the reminiscing and gave non-commital answers. And then she found the gun under his pillow and said something like "you're not the man I used to love"
 
And yes, clearly Stamets is absolutely key to all of this. The mirror reflection thing was something I totally overlooked but makes (a bit more) sense now. He's made contact with his mirror self in some kind of spore ether. Whether mirror Stamets has a physical presence or is entirely contained in that spore ether idk, but them being together now could be precisely what Lorca wanted, if it makes the spore drive tech ridiculously more powerful. Or Lorca might not know about that, and it might be his undoing.
 
Also, when he had Admiral whatsherface over to his quarters, he let her do all the reminiscing and gave non-commital answers. And then she found the gun under his pillow and said something like "you're not the man I used to love"

I'd forgotten about that.

I'm more and more convinced. :thumbs:
 
That was very decent indeed

though the bit where Burnham found out that Lorca was mirror Lorca was a bit ewww - "He... groomed you", especially
 
the eye thing all along. So now evil stammets is in good stammets body and vice versa like some freaky friday swap?

Is he? I just thought evil Stamets woke up on his ship, and ours woke up on ours? The 'twist' being this was evil Stamets' plan all along because he needed to get out just as much as ours did, but it was played as being all because our Stamets' had his tender moment. Maybe I need to watch it again.

Anyway. VINDICATION.

I may have strutted. :oops:
 
hmm lets go to the emperors ship with no way of escape

*strokes chin*
She went onto the Klingon ship with no means of escape, and on the rebel planet. It's a star trek thing, they always get in shit like that.

Anyway...you know that episode (without catch-up, intro and credits) is just over 30 minutes...maybe 32. 37 min runtime.
 
I thought the reveal was slightly disappointing. Could have played out in a more dramatic/tense moment, though I suppose we got that with Ash/Voq.

Which brings me onto the second point I wish I'd made before Lorca was confirmed - two "he's not who you think he is" in the same series? Maybe it's gonna be all "oooooh, it's a theme", but right now it's a little underwhelming.

Still, feels like the series has got going. Would like to see Mudd back with all this shit going down :D
 
OH HELL YEAH!

VINDICATION.
giphy.gif
 
Back
Top Bottom