Spanish Political News

[Stanley Edwards]

Political prisoners in Europe.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/a...y-independence-stance-in-letter-to-spanish-pm

It is all a bit shit. But, you still can't ignore the fact that the majority of people are against independence. From your link...

'The Catalan government says 90 percent of voters in the referendum backed a breakaway, but turnout was only 43 percent as most opponents of independence in the region boycotted the vote, already declared illegal by Spain's Constitutional Court.'

Surely the Spanish government is obliged to act on behalf of the majority? I am in no way agreeing with their methods and actions.

 

[Anudder Oik]

It is all a bit shit. But, you still can't ignore the fact that the majority of people are against independence. From your link...

'The Catalan government says 90 percent of voters in the referendum backed a breakaway, but turnout was only 43 percent as most opponents of independence in the region boycotted the vote, already declared illegal by Spain's Constitutional Court.'

Surely the Spanish government is obliged to act on behalf of the majority? I am in no way agreeing with their methods and actions.

First: people not voting in an election is not a boycott, it's called abstention. This is rife in Spain because a lot of people don't give a fuck. The people who didn't vote do not represent a block.

Second: The independentista parties represent the majority in votes and seats in the catalan parliament.

Third: Over 2 million voted in the referendum despite the threat of violence. They voted overwhelmingly in favour of independence.

Fourth. Voting in a democratic referendum in Catalonia will never be legal. Why not? Who are the shadowy people who say it's not legal? Are they even legal or ethical themselves? Was Rosa Parks legal? Were women protesting for the right to vote "legal"?

 

[Anudder Oik]

If anyone is still wondering why Catalans want to break away from Spain, apart from cultural/historical reasons and a seperate language and critical mindset there has been years of anti catalan sentiment stirred up by the right wing ruling party in Spain, the PP. I have groaned at this for years, being witness to example after example of bigotry and hate comiong from Spains political class.

Last week, the vice secretary of communications of the spanish ruling PP party said this to the catalan president: "Puigdemont should be more careful because he may end up like president Companys."

Companys was president when Catalonia particpated in an uprising in 1934, before the civil war. After the civil war he was handed over to Franco by the gestapo, taken to the fortress of Montjuic on a hill overlooking Barcelona, tortured and shot. Ada Colau, the progressive mayoress of barcelona has called for the sacking of Casado for this clearly obscene and undemocratic statement, yet she is the one being villified by hundreds in the comments sections of every newspaper in the country.

Pablo Casado recuerda a Puigdemont que puede acabar como Companys

 

[tim]

First: people not voting in an election is not a boycott, it's called abstention. This is rife in Spain because a lot of people don't give a fuck. The people who didn't vote do not represent a block.

Second: The independentista parties represent the majority in votes and seats in the catalan parliament.

Third: Over 2 million voted in the referendum despite the threat of violence. They voted overwhelmingly in favour of independence.

Fourth. Voting in a democratic referendum in Catalonia will never be legal. Why not? Who are the shadowy people who say it's not legal? Are they even legal or ethical themselves? Was Rosa Parks legal? Were women protesting for the right to vote "legal"?

I agree with Stan, not only was the turn out 43%, but the polling stations that were open were under the control of independence activists. You yourself told us that on the morning of the poll. Those are not conditions that would be considered free and fair. The Catalan government may declare independence but they can't honestly claim that the flawed referendum gives them a mandate.

 

[LiamO]

I agree with Stan, not only was the turn out 43%, but the polling stations that were open were under the control of independence activists. You yourself told us that on the morning of the poll. Those are not conditions that would be considered free and fair. The Catalan government may declare independence but they can't honestly claim that the flawed referendum gives them a mandate.

Obviously on a par with wishing Puigdemont gets the same as Companys.

 

[Anudder Oik]

I agree with Stan, not only was the turn out 43%, but the polling stations that were open were under the control of independence activists. You yourself told us that on the morning of the poll. Those are not conditions that would be considered free and fair. The Catalan government may declare independence but they can't honestly claim that the flawed referendum gives them a mandate.

This is a photo of the diada "independence day" in 2012 in Barcelona. It is calculated by metres squared that there are almost 2 million people in this aerial photo. The PP and cuitadans voters combined add up to one million, after that there are the left parties who are unsure of where to stand, and then there are hundreds of thousands who don't give a fuck and never vote.

 

[tim]

Obviously on a par with wishing Puigdemont gets the same as Companys.

Clearly not.

 

[tim]

This is a photo of the diada "independence day" in 2012 in Barcelona. It is calculated by metres squared that there are almost 2 million people in this aerial photo. The PP and cuitadans voters combined add up to one million, after that there are the left parties who are unsure of where to stand, and then there are hundreds of thousands who don't give a fuck and never vote.

What point are you trying to make with your five year old photo ?

 

[Wilf]

I agree with Stan, not only was the turn out 43%, but the polling stations that were open were under the control of independence activists. You yourself told us that on the morning of the poll. Those are not conditions that would be considered free and fair. The Catalan government may declare independence but they can't honestly claim that the flawed referendum gives them a mandate.

I agree with all that but you have to add in that the GC stopped a lot of indie voters getting to the polls, either by clubbing them or putting them off in the first place. I agree that you can't take this as legitimation to declare UDI - and the real problem for the indie movement is there isn't a natural indie majority. However, getting 90% of 43% was actually pretty impressive in the circs.

 

[Favelado]

First: people not voting in an election is not a boycott, it's called abstention. This is rife in Spain because a lot of people don't give a fuck. The people who didn't vote do not represent a block.

Second: The independentista parties represent the majority in votes and seats in the catalan parliament.

Third: Over 2 million voted in the referendum despite the threat of violence. They voted overwhelmingly in favour of independence.

Fourth. Voting in a democratic referendum in Catalonia will never be legal. Why not? Who are the shadowy people who say it's not legal? Are they even legal or ethical themselves? Was Rosa Parks legal? Were women protesting for the right to vote "legal"?

First point. It was a boycott. Anti-independence Catalans didn't want to recognise a vote in which they feared their participation would be counter-productive to their aims.

Second point. Didn't pro-independence parties (CUP and Junts pel sí) get less than 50% of the vote in the last Catalan elections? They DID get more than 50% of the seats.

Third point. Yes.

Fourth point. Not true. If PP were booted out there are definitely a number of permutations of Spanish governments that would allow for a state-sanctioned referendum.

Good luck to Catalans whatever they decide, and I hope they get to decide too. Your posts read like you're some kind of Gary Neville of Catalan nationalism. He's not from Manchester so he has to pretend to be more Manc than anyone else. Running towards the Scousers to taunt them.

I had a sizeable argument about this with my madrileña girlfriend tonight, where I stuck up for Catalans and pointed out how useless Spain has been at listening. Then I read your posts and remember why I disliked Catalan nationalism when I left Barcelona.

 

[tim]

I agree with all that but you have to add in that the GC stopped a lot of indie voters getting to the polls, either by clubbing them or putting them off in the first place. I agree that you can't take this as legitimation to declare UDI - and the real problem for the indie movement is there isn't a natural indie majority. However, getting 90% of 43% was actually pretty impressive in the circs.

Yes, I as I said earlier in the thread the Spanish government have behaved appallingly both by banning the referendum and by the violence used to try and stop it.

 

[chilango]

First point. It was a boycott. Anti-independence Catalans didn't want to recognise a vote in which they feared their participation would be counter-productive to their aims.

Second point. Didn't pro-independence parties (CUP and Junts pel sí) get less than 50% of the vote in the last Catalan elections? They DID get more than 50% of the seats.

Third point. Yes.

Fourth point. Not true. If PP were booted out there are definitely a number of permutations of Spanish governments that would allow for a state-sanctioned referendum.

Good luck to Catalans whatever they decide, and I hope they get to decide too. Your posts read like you're some kind of Gary Neville of Catalan nationalism. He's not from Manchester so he has to pretend to be more Manc than anyone else. Running towards the Scousers to taunt them.

I had a sizeable argument about this with my madrileña girlfriend tonight, where I stuck up for Catalans and pointed out how useless Spain has been at listening. Then I read your posts and remember why I disliked Catalan nationalism when I left Barcelona.

What? Gary Neville’s not a Manc?

 

[Favelado]

What? Gary Neville’s not a Manc?

He's from Bury.

 

[butchersapron]

Holy frig - as if calling catalans who oppose independence fascists and immigrants to catalonia and non-catalans cultural fascists wasn't enough we now have the spectacle of the attempted rehabilitation of Companys who it has long been understood as being one of the key individuals behind disarming of the revolution in Catalonia and consequently the whole country. You need only look at his role in the 37 may days to see this: a thousand dead revolutionaries and the outlawing of the POUM and other opposition groups (the last move itself opened the door to the deaths of thousands of fighters at the hands of the stalinists - including Company's main political enemies - and the fatal splitting of anti-francoist forces. And this person is now to the symbol of revolutionary nationalist independence and of what should be done? Ugh.

 

[Wilf]

. Your posts read like you're some kind of Gary Neville of Catalan nationalism. He's not from Manchester so he has to pretend to be more Manc than anyone else. Running towards the Scousers to taunt them..

Harry Roberts and Gary Neville, singing from the same hymn sheet.

I had a sizeable argument about this with my madrileña girlfriend tonight, where I stuck up for Catalans and pointed out how useless Spain has been at listening. Then I read your posts and remember why I disliked Catalan nationalism when I left Barcelona

To be fair, urban is the place that most of come to reinforce our prejudices.

 

[Wilf]

He's from Bury.

Gazzer is a regional figure - Bury Blackpudding, Old Trafford, owns Salford City, hands out hotels to the homeless, Eco-friendly testimonial, has planning permission for some kind of hobbit style Eco-Xanadu house...

In January 2010, it was reported that Neville has applied for planning permission to build an eco-friendly home, which would be the first zero-carbon house in northwest England.[112] Neville's testimonial game was reported to be the most eco-friendly game in English football history.[34]

He's here, he's there, he's every fucking where... oh, hang on, that's Brian McLair.

 

[Anudder Oik]

It has been falsely claimed in this thread that students at Barcelona’s Autonoma University are being persecuted and put on black lists by nasty independentistas. It’s funny how no sources were provided to back up the claim but it’s not surprising really seeing how the story was run by Antena3, a notorious right wing channel famous for manipulation. It has come out that the story was, surprise surprise, fabricated and that the students interviewed are in fact organizers of right wing organizations (something not mentioned in the interviews) Another girl who was interviewed has turned out to be an actress. She gave 2 interviews on 2 different channels, one where she said she was studying and another where she told the cameras she had two degrees, was working but felt she had to leave Catalonia.

Much more detail of the media manipulation and the campaign by the spanish state to criminalize the Catalan's cause can be found here.

Crònica de la construcció de l’odi: una operació d’estat contra Catalunya

 

[Pickman's model]

It has been falsely claimed in this thread that students at Barcelona’s Autonoma University are being persecuted and put on black lists by nasty independentistas. It’s funny how no sources were provided to back up the claim but it’s not surprising really seeing how the story was run by Antena3, a notorious right wing channel famous for man<snip>

no it hasn't

you're the only person on this thread to claim (falsely or otherwise) that people have said this, you're the only person to mention the claim about barcelona's autonoma university.

 

[ddraig]

how you liking timmies views on this Anudder Oik ??

 

[Pickman's model]

how you liking timmies views on this Anudder Oik ??

probably kipping round at ao's

 

[Anudder Oik]

I think he's irrelevant to this issue, although ironically he popped up on youtube pointing out the fascist salutes in Barcelona on the spanish nationalist unity protest that is being defended by certain unchallenged posters on this very thread, but of course, you haven't noticed that for some reason.

Why is that?

It is quite confusing really as he is supposed to be on their side. If I bumped into him I would definitely grill him on why he keeps company with people like the ones in the photo where he tried to hide, the one sitting at a table. That is something positive that Urban has provided despite all the cranks on here.

I think you need to reread Favaledo's post 1877. He spoke of the black lists at the autonoma university. This comes from a seriously agenda orientated source and is false. Only fascists and idiots watch that channel (Antena3), let alone believe it.

 

[ddraig]

How is he relevant to other issues? same style reporting on things he doesn't know about (that you previously loved and promoted him for)

 

[Anudder Oik]

How is he relevant to other issues? same style reporting on things he doesn't know about (that you previously loved and promoted him for)

Maybe he's not relevant to any issue. Maybe the idea is to chuck things on the table and debate them without getting all paranoid. I have never defended the video guys opinions, just tried to debate content. The logic here is that everything you link to defines your own personal beliefs or political stance. Fucking level on this forum is so low.

 

[ddraig]

Maybe he's not relevant to any issue. Maybe the idea is to chuck things on the table and debate them without getting all paranoid. I have never defended the video guys opinions, just tried to debate content. The logic here is that everything you link to defines your own personal beliefs or political stance. Fucking level on this forum is so low.

bollocks

 

[Anudder Oik]

bollocks

Yes, I have two, you obviously only have one.

 

[ddraig]

Yes, I have two, you obviously only have one.

why's that then? what an odd thing to insult someone with

your post, for clarity (as most/many others of yours) is bollocks

 

[Anudder Oik]

why's that then? what an odd thing to insult someone with

your post, for clarity (as most/many others of yours) is bollocks

What is your position on the catalan political prisoners, Jordi Sànchez and Jordi Cuixart?

 

[Anudder Oik]

A few links on the Spanish crisis.

Amnesty international warns of the erosion of basic rights to protest in Spain and condemns police/state violence.

Spain: Protests and the suffocating embrace of the law // Amnesty International European Institutions Office

Amnesty international considers "excessive" the imprisonment of peaceful catalan protest organizers. (Spanish language link)

https://www.es.amnesty.org/en-que-e...om&utm_term=Amnesty&utm_content=News-20171018

The Spanish media are the least trustworthy, according to Oxford University

The Spanish media are the least trustworthy, according to Oxford University

Spain prepares to liquidate Catalonia's autonomy.

Spain ready to impose direct rule on Catalonia on eve of deadline

 

[Anudder Oik]

Something wierd going on in Barcelona tonite. The openly fascist party "democracia nacional" have organized a protest in the plaza Frances Macia, a roundabout on the important Diagonal avenue. It has been retweeted and supported by the organizers of the big unionist rally held in barcelona a few days ago (Sociedad civil catalana)

It's raining and there are about 150 people with spanish flags stopping cars and forcing people to shout "Long live Spain" before letting them pass. No police around.

 

[Favelado]

It has been falsely claimed in this thread that students at Barcelona’s Autonoma University are being persecuted and put on black lists by nasty independentistas. It’s funny how no sources were provided to back up the claim but it’s not surprising really seeing how the story was run by Antena3, a notorious right wing channel famous for manipulation. It has come out that the story was, surprise surprise, fabricated and that the students interviewed are in fact organizers of right wing organizations (something not mentioned in the interviews) Another girl who was interviewed has turned out to be an actress. She gave 2 interviews on 2 different channels, one where she said she was studying and another where she told the cameras she had two degrees, was working but felt she had to leave Catalonia.

Much more detail of the media manipulation and the campaign by the spanish state to criminalize the Catalan's cause can be found here.

Crònica de la construcció de l’odi: una operació d’estat contra Catalunya

I think I saw it on centre-left friendly Cuatro. Not Antenna 3.

This link seems to take you to the image on Twitter from students trying to compile the black list.

Los separatistas hacen una lista negra con los estudiantes que fueron a la marcha del domingo

Spanish TV news is bollocks and is being manipulated by the state. For sure. Not sure the story is invented from scratch at all. Don't trust you as a source for your claims either.