Spanish Political News

[Riklet]

Ok back in the real world, away from the I'm a real (anti fascist) country Pinocchio politics....

Spanish government has now voted to suspend Catalan autonomy and impose direct rule. This has to be passed by the senate it seems, first. I think they're hoping to get the Catalan politicians to the negotiating table in a weakened position, get the mossos back under control and avoid the giant bill of sending in the Spanish police again. The markets are already a bit shaken.

On the streets, will be interesting to see the response - whether people are going to keep doing jazz hands and banging pans and keep their faith in their regional politicians with cold feet, or else something different.

 

[Pickman's model]

As an historic nation Catalonia has a right to decide on it's self determination according to the letter of the united nations of 1951.

It has asked Spain 17 times and been refused each time the right to vote. They opted this time for disobedience. The spanish state reacted in its usual way with violence with an occupation force, judicial and economic assault. They are holding peaceful political organisers in prison without bail, they intend to shut down autonomy, take control of catalan tv, finances and the mossos. I think they will also target eduction. The PP and Ciutadans have spoken also about their desire to outlaw political parties that support independence, in other words, the majority. They talk of calling elections for next january. IMO it's bollox. The only way independence wouldn't win that election would be if they were banned from participating.

when was it a nation?

 

[butchersapron]

Ok back in the real world, away from the I'm a real (anti fascist) country Pinocchio politics....

Spanish government has now voted to suspend Catalan autonomy and impose direct rule. This has to be passed by the senate it seems, first. I think they're hoping to get the Catalan politicians to the negotiating table in a weakened position, get the mossos back under control and avoid the giant bill of sending in the Spanish police again. The markets are already a bit shaken.

On the streets, will be interesting to see the response - whether people are going to keep doing jazz hands and banging pans and keep their faith in their regional politicians with cold feet, or else something different.

Deadline passed thursday. They waited until saturday - saturday afternoon - to announce this. Are they actively hoping for a few hundred thousand people to gather and trouble to kick off?

 

[J Ed]

Deadline passed thursday. They waited until saturday - saturday afternoon - to announce this. Are they actively hoping for a few hundred thousand people to gather and trouble to kick off?

One of the main tactics of the Madrid government has been to try to provoke violence for nearly a month now, no reason for them to stop. Big protest in Barcelona atm.

 

[gosub]

2 referendums in Northern Italy this weekend

 

[Riklet]

I think it's going to kick off big time next week.

End of the beginning beginning of the end etc. Can't quite believe the whole new elections spiel and sending the police in again to occupy and take over government buuldings welll.... 3 million people might not be so happy about that.

 

[phillm]

So much depends on who was shooting at your (great) grandparents.

That would be the Bosch in my case , but forgive and forget eh ?

 

[JuanTwoThree]

That would be the Bosch in my case , but forgive and forget eh ?

Quite so. But my neighbours, whose recent ancestors were shooting at each other, find it less straightforward.

 

[Pickman's model]

That would be the Bosch in my case , but forgive and forget eh ?

Bosch the Dutch painter and fictional la cop. Boche the foul hun, the jerry if you will.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Wow, dutch painters and speculation about the Erdogan clones in Madrid "hoping to get to the negotiating table", despite their declared aim to dissolve a democratically elected parliament of Catalonia because they didn't like the referendum result and their imprisonment of people without bail for organizing peaceful protests. Informed debate anyone?

Only 450,000 on this demo this afternoon. My wife went and was disappointed with the poor turnout.

 

[Anudder Oik]

The worst party in Spain is not the PP, it is the PSOE, historically a left wing reformist party with links to the unions, but what they are doing now, closing ranks with the corrupt sons and grandaughters of franco's regime in order to enact repressive measures (155) against the will of the Catalans is beyond the pale. It is the ulitmate sellout. There is zero integrity in their ranks.

Listening to them calling for the abolition of an elected government in the same sentence that they cynically call for new elections in Catalonia, is sickening. You don't even see this depth of political depravity in Turkey. The leader of the PSOE recently won the leadership election on the ticket that he would demand Rajoy's resignation. What a cunt, now merrily skipping towards the abyss hand in hand with Rajoy and selling out the spanish people (the progressive part) in the process.

Of course, an election in Catalonia would return the independentista majority parties with an even bigger majority than it has now. Who are they kidding? The PSOE are on the side of reaction, a very dangerous reaction, which, abetted by fascist judges who abound in Spain, will find a justification to ban all the independetista parties from participating in this proposed election. So much for democracy, it is being murdered by the PPSOE, a Coup de d'etat wrapped in democratic wording. Fascism in practice in 21st century europe, supported and loved by Junkers and co, who see the state as purely a defence of economic interests above the interests and lives of the people who populate europe.

 

[Wookey]

The worst party in Spain is not the PP, it is the PSOE, historically a left wing reformist party with links to the unions, but what they are doing now, closing ranks with the corrupt sons and grandaughters of franco's regime in order to enact repressive measures (155) against the will of the Catalans is beyond the pale. It is the ulitmate sellout. There is zero integrity in their ranks.

Listening to them calling for the abolition of an elected government in the same sentence that they cynically call for new elections in Catalonia, is sickening. You don't even see this depth of political depravity in Turkey. The leader of the PSOE recently won the leadership election on the ticket that he would demand Rajoy's resignation. What a cunt, now merrily skipping towards the abyss hand in hand with Rajoy and selling out the spanish people (the progressive part) in the process.

Of course, an election in Catalonia would return the independentista majority parties with an even bigger majority than it has now. Who are they kidding? The PSOE are on the side of reaction, a very dangerous reaction, which, abetted by fascist judges who abound in Spain, will find a justification to ban all the independetista parties from participating in this proposed election. So much for democracy, it is being murdered by the PPSOE, a Coup de d'etat wrapped in democratic wording. Fascism in practice in 21st century europe, supported and loved by Junkers and co, who see the state as purely a defence of economic interests above the interests and lives of the people who populate europe.

So, what's to be done? Declaration of independence? I would.

 

[Anudder Oik]

So, what's to be done? Declaration of independence? I would.

Yes, next friday 29th they will lift the suspension and declare the republic.

Also, the imposition of the 155 law, to remove Catalan autonomy, dissolve its elected government, take over its TV and radio channels and place it all in spanish government hands, all this is going to meet massive resistance, not just in the street but in the institutions themselves.

When 155 is approved by the Senate, the PPSOE with their judges will want to try to apply it. But to implement some of these measures, they would have to count on complicity from within several sectors of catalan society and they will not necessarily be able to achieve this. For example, the majority of catalan government civil servants will resist. In addition, with a massive and perseverant response from Catalan citizens, some of these measures cannot be applied effectively and this should make it clear that the Spanish government no longer has control over Catalan territory. It should then become internationally evident that Spain, in fact, can no longer exercise sovereign power over Catalonia. In such a case 155 could backfire. There will be more international reaction, too, when the spanish police (an occupation force) starts using violence again.

They are saying too that for Rajoy to replace Puigdemont and place himself as temporary head of the Catalan generalitat is illegal.

 

[extra dry]

The first step is to impose early closing times for smaller family run bars, then resturants, just for the fact that large crowds of drunk angry people can be difficult to deal with.

 

[extra dry]

2 referendums in Northern Italy this weekend

It's almost as if the wealthy areas of Europe are slowly pulling out of this happy family.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Dastis, the spanish Foreign minister, last week told french news that spanish is not taught in Catalan schools, this week he has stated that fake images were used to portray the police in a bad light on the day they injured over 1000 people at polling stations.

This is the level of Spain's rulers. They are dandruffy monolithic monsters from the past. A corrupt mafia.

 

[Anudder Oik]

The delegation of the CCOO trade union at the spanish (RTVE) state television studios in Catalonia has posted a statement on its Facebook page where they report that there are infiltrated people in the TVE facilities in Sant Cugat. They explained that on Friday they asked the deputy director of the Corporation for explanations, but that did not clarify anything.

'They are camouflaged among us, they look like employees from external companies and make use of the services in the cafeteria, they have a good physical presence and move around the company's premises as if they know where they are. The big difference with the workers of TVE in Sant Cugat is that these guys are armed. They are part of the state's security forces, "says the text.

Comissions Obreres denuncia que hi ha policies infiltrats a les instal·lacions de TVE Catalunya

 

[Anudder Oik]

The man in the picture is the delegate from the PP government in Castilla de la Mancha, a region far from Catalonia.
His name is José Julián Gregorio and he is not a member of the autonomous government there. The autonomous government in Castilla de la Mancha
is ruled by an alliance between PSOE and Podemos. Mr. Gregorio doesn't like their politics and has threatened them with....wait for it....Article 155, which would desolve
their autonomy and pass power to his party which is in the opposition there. This is the way these people think. They are vulgar low life scum. Throwbacks to europe's fascist past.
He wants the central State to "correct the problems that the region is suffering".

El delegado del Gobierno en Castilla-La Mancha pide aplicar el 155... en Castilla-La Mancha

 

[Riklet]

Apparently 66% of Catalans surveyed disagree with imposition of Article 155 stripping Catalonia of regional autonomy.

63% of the rest of Spain on the other hand agrees with it. Fuckin'ell.

66% de los catalanes rechaza el 155 (Elperiódico). 63% de los españoles a favor (LaSexta). Dirigentes irresponsables fracturando el país.

Posted by Alberto Garzón the leader of Izquierda Unida who posts relatively solid social media stuff. He talks about irresponsible leaders fracturing the country. Almost an understatement! Im amazed that such stupidity enjoys such widespread support, still. One third of very quiet Catalans too, we should also remember.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Be careful with the silent block/majorty narrative. It is a lie peddled by the PP to attack the result of the referendum. A minimum of 25% of the electorate never votes in elections. They abstain because they are not politically engaged and couldn't give a toss. There is therefore no reason to attribute them to being in favor of 155 or against independence. There are around 1,000,000 voters willing to deposit their trust in the spanish right wing parties in Catalonia, a number which can be confirmed easily. Another thing is that when people die, it takes a long time for their names to be removed from the electoral register so numbers of potential voters in the electoral register aren't precise. The fact that the Catalan parliament has a pro independence majority must surely reflect the reality.

I believe, 2,044,038 votes for Independence, plus hundreds of thousands of votes confiscated on the day during a violent onslaught is a win.

 

[Pickman's model]

A minimum of 25% of the electorate never votes in elections. They abstain because they are not politically engaged and couldn't give a toss.

yeh. right. cos 1996 never happened and nor did 2004. and obvs when people don't vote they're clearly not politically engaged

 

[Wilf]

Be careful with the silent block/majorty narrative. It is a lie peddled by the PP to attack the result of the referendum. A minimum of 25% of the electorate never votes in elections. They abstain because they are not politically engaged and couldn't give a toss. There is therefore no reason to attribute them to being in favor of 155 or against independence. There are around 1,000,000 voters willing to deposit their trust in the spanish right wing parties in Catalonia, a number which can be confirmed easily. Another thing is that when people die, it takes a long time for their names to be removed from the electoral register so numbers of potential voters in the electoral register aren't precise. The fact that the Catalan parliament has a pro independence majority must surely reflect the reality.

I believe, 2,044,038 votes for Independence, plus hundreds of thousands of votes confiscated on the day during a violent onslaught is a win.

I've made similar points to the bolded bit, that without the violence and stolen ballots there might well have been something like/approaching 50% vote for independence. However, it's a stretch to take that as an indication there is a settled majority in favour of independence, the thing you surely need if declaring secession.

 

[Pickman's model]

I've made similar points to the bolded bit, that without the violence and stolen ballots there might well have been something like/approaching 50% vote for independence. However, it's a stretch to take that as an indication there is a settled majority in favour of independence, the thing you surely need if declaring secession.

oh i think you can rely on the spanish state to deliver a majority in favour of independence.

 

[DotCommunist]

I've made similar points to the bolded bit, that without the violence and stolen ballots there might well have been something like/approaching 50% vote for independence. However, it's a stretch to take that as an indication there is a settled majority in favour of independence, the thing you surely need if declaring secession.

I'd thought the oppo side had boycotted the election in the main as invalid. Which surely means its less than the full story.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'd thought the oppo side had boycotted the election in the main as invalid. Which surely means its less than the full story.

yeh but for anudder oik if they didn't vote they're not politically engaged and couldn't give a toss.

 

[Anudder Oik]

yeh but for anudder oik if they didn't vote they're not politically engaged and couldn't give a toss.

No, I have explained. The anti's have 1,000,000 supporters for sure in Catalonia but the boycott of the referendum cannot be calculated by the number of people who didn't vote. 25% of people never vote in Spain and therefore cannot be added to the silent majority theory.

 

[Silas Loom]

25% of people never vote in Spain.

I can believe that turnout never goes much above 75%. But what you suggest is rather less plausible.

 

[Pickman's model]

No, I have explained. The anti's have 1,000,000 supporters for sure in Catalonia but the boycott of the referendum cannot be calculated by the number of people who didn't vote. 25% of people never vote in Spain and therefore cannot be added to the silent majority theory.

you missed my post above, then, about 1996 and 2004: when more than 75% of the registered voters turned out. didn't bother looking before 1996 as your point disproved. saying people who don't vote aren't politically engaged politically illiterate too, btw.

 

[Anudder Oik]

I can believe that turnout never goes much above 75%. But what you suggest is rather less plausible.

They got 49% of 75%then, and under violent assault and with ballot boxes confiscated. What is your calculation of the result?

 

[Anudder Oik]

you missed my post above, then, about 1996 and 2004: when more than 75% of the registered voters turned out. didn't bother looking before 1996 as your point disproved. saying people who don't vote aren't politically engaged politically illiterate too, btw.

Put a link, it is not even clear what counrty you are referring to.