Russia mobilises - consequences and reactions

[cuppa tee]

this guy is clearly punk, of the nihilist variety.

yeah like Plastic Bertrand...
...im feeling 'festival of brexit' vibes at this gig....anyone else ?

 

[RD2003]

yeah like Plastic Bertrand...
...im feeling 'festival of brexit' vibes at this gig....anyone else ?

I was wondering who he reminded me of.

 

[Raheem]

yeah like Plastic Bertrand...
...im feeling 'festival of brexit' vibes at this gig....anyone else ?

Tsar plane pour moi.

 

[RD2003]

How early on, when they almost reached Kyiv?. Isn’t there some fringe meeting at the conference you need to go to?

I haven't been to a conference of any kind since the 1990s.

As I said, there could have been a concerted effort to freeze the conflict from the start, with pressure applied on Russia to withdraw in return for security guarantees. We don't know if such moves would have worked because there was no intention of even trying.

 

[RD2003]

I actually agree with a lot of the criticisms of NATO but the invasion changed things. What if the negotiations had failed (as they did)? Should the west have armed Ukraine or should it just have let Putin just keep the territory he'd invaded? I'm convinced RD2003 is going to answer us this time.

It's like the joke about asking an old bloke in the country how you'd get to the next village and he says "ah well I wouldn't start from here", and that's the only answer you ever get.

They failed but could have been resumed had there been the will. As I said, Zelensky was elected on a promise of continued negotiations and was pressured out of it by nationalist hardliners.

By instead pouring in the arms, the west guaranteed that we'd get to the dangerous situation we are in now. Some people said this all along.

 

[RD2003]

Do you genuinely think this was even a possibility?

Don't know, but vigorous efforts towards trying might just have averted carnage.

 

[RD2003]

Twitter tells me that the horde baying for blood at that rally in Nuremberg Moscow don't care about the price.

Fortunate. Coz the bill is on its way...

Bills don't matter when the world is ashes.

 

[kebabking]

Don't know, but vigorous efforts towards trying might just have averted carnage.

The thing that would have ensured that not one Ukrainian - and only the Russians who smoke cigarettes in ammunition dumps - would be dead, is if 9 months ago, Ukraine had joined NATO.

Putin has made threats against NATO member states, but he doesn't carry them out.

That's your problem, isn't it - you might decry the death and the destruction, but in the end you think Ukraine belongs to Russia, and anything that gets in the way of that, is wrong.

 

[editor]

They failed but could have been resumed had there been the will. As I said, Zelensky was elected on a promise of continued negotiations and was pressured out of it by nationalist hardliners.

By instead pouring in the arms, the west guaranteed that we'd get to the dangerous situation we are in now. Some people said this all along.

Ah. So it's the West's fault that Putin brutally invaded Ukraine and his soldiers set about raping and murdering innocent civilians, women and children, destroying homes and looting belongings?

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[RD2003]

Ah. So it's the West's fault that Putin brutally invaded Ukraine and his soldiers set about raping and murdering innocent civilians, women and children, destroying homes and looting belongings?

Thanks for the clarification.

Say something a bit more original.

 

[Supine]

Anyone got any tips for negotiating with an angry invading tank? Never know when it might come in useful.

 

[two sheds]

They failed but could have been resumed had there been the will. As I said, Zelensky was elected on a promise of continued negotiations and was pressured out of it by nationalist hardliners.

By instead pouring in the arms, the west guaranteed that we'd get to the dangerous situation we are in now. Some people said this all along.

There is no way Putin would have negotiated in good faith, everything that has happened confirms that.

You call people on here warmongers but you continue to refuse to answer the simple question of what the west should have done if (when) Putin wouldn't negotiate, or how the west would have prevented him from just using negotiations to consolidate his position and continue his invasion later.

You wouldn't have armed Ukraine, so would have just let Putin take Ukraine and carry on with his war crimes with no response.
I thought I'd give it one more try but I won't ask you any more, I don't think you're discussing in good faith.

 

[spitfire]

Anyone got any tips for negotiating with an angry invading tank? Never know when it might come in useful.

Tank or tankie?

Tank. Paintball guns. I saw it on the internet so it must be true.

Tankie? Ignore or mock. Depending on your schedule.

 

[Ax^]

Anyone got any tips for negotiating with an angry invading tank? Never know when it might come in useful.

throw RD2023 in front of it and go "ok now its all natos fault"

 

[RD2003]

The thing that would have ensured that not one Ukrainian - and only the Russians who smoke cigarettes in ammunition dumps - would be dead, is if 9 months ago, Ukraine had joined NATO.

Putin has made threats against NATO member states, but he doesn't carry them out.

That's your problem, isn't it - you might decry the death and the destruction, but in the end you think Ukraine belongs to Russia, and anything that gets in the way of that, is wrong.

This is the thing about internet forums (or even just talking to people.) It isn't what you say, but what people want you to say.

Not once have I said that Ukraine belongs to Russia. It's far from what I'm saying in these last few posts. Not that it would be 'my problem' if I did; it would just be me saying something, and presumably happy enough about it.

Ukraine said only today that it understands that it couldn't have joined NATO nine months ago.

Is the solution for any country that feels under threat anywhere to join NATO?

 

[RD2003]

There is no way Putin would have negotiated in good faith, everything that has happened confirms that.

You call people on here warmongers but you continue to refuse to answer the simple question of what the west should have done if (when) Putin wouldn't negotiate, or how the west would have prevented him from just using negotiations to consolidate his position and continue his invasion later.

You wouldn't have armed Ukraine, so would have just let Putin take Ukraine and carry on with his war crimes with no response.
I thought I'd give it one more try but I won't ask you any more, I don't think you're discussing in good faith.

Any politician in power would try and use negotiations on anything to consolidate their position. Everything would depend on the outcome of the negotiations.

People confidently say all this stuff without possibly knowing what would happen if negotiatations had been pursued more vigorously.

'I' wouldn't have armed Ukraine? Fortuntely 'you' have done so, so you get your happy ending. Please carry on in your 'good faith.'

 

[RD2003]

Anyone got any tips for negotiating with an angry invading tank? Never know when it might come in useful.

Junior school playground commentary.

 

[Ax^]

 

[editor]

Say something a bit more original.

Sorry if you find the truth so detrimental to your argument.

 

[RD2003]

Sorry if you find the truth so detrimental to your argument.

The truth. You can't handle the truth.

 

[xenon]

If he uses nukes imo it'll happen regardless of if they're in NATO or not, and they can't join it straight away even under an 'accelerated process'

Yes. There’s one thing about the don’t provoke the bear rhetoric. Another thing if the bear is actually tearing your house apart murdering and raping your people.

 

[xenon]

There has been escalation all along. The western powers have enabled Ukraine in getting to the point where Putin does this.

Early on there could have been a united call for a freezing of the conflict and the withdrawal of Russian troops, in return for guarantees of Ukrainian neutrality and never to be a miltary threat to Russia, (no conceivable government in Moscow will accept anything less, and defeat in this war only guarantees a flare-up again in future decades), with severe penalties for Russia if it breaks any agreement.

Far from easy to achieve, but better than death and carnage.

You appear not to really understand what is motivating Putin. I claim no great insight, but this naive idea doesn’t seem to fit what we’ve seen.

 

[Ax^]

the worrying thing is he today proclaiming that legally they have the right to defend this stolen territory as part of Russia

they are losing but have the tactical nukes

not sure if NATO would engage or condemn this escalation further

clearly when a bampot has almost said we need this for breathing room for my race

all bets are off

 

[RD2003]

You appear not to really understand what is motivating Putin. I claim no great insight, but this naive idea doesn’t seem to fit what we’ve seen.

I've commented on what apparently motivates Putin in several posts over various threads. But in this lately, in this thread, I have speculated on whether it would have been possible to try and bypass him in favour of more realistic heads in the regime. We can't say, and it doesn't appear to have been tried.

As far as what does motivate Putin, we can also only speculate. John Gray, for one, seems to think he is sincere in his true-believer Orthodox Russian civilisation stuff. But even he doesn't know.

What a world, 30-odd years on from all the naive hopes that were peddled at the end of the Cold War. And all the while, daunting threats close in on us that were barely glimpsed back then.

 

[Ax^]

'We are coming'*


*'We' includes but is not limited to: the working class, assorted protestors, muslims, tengrists, buddhists and a number of convicted criminals. 'We' is exclusive of: propagandists, the loyal wealthy. For now

if he'd end it with hail hydra

i'd not be surprised

rapist gloves, polo neck and leather trench coat plus a nationalist violent outlook


"ukraines the nazies"

 

[RD2003]

the worrying thing is he today proclaiming that legally they have the right to defend this stolen territory as part of Russia

they are losing but have the tactical nukes

not sure if NATO would engage or condemn this escalation further

clearly when a bampot has almost said we need this for breathing room for my race

all bets are off

Some people did try to tell you...

 

[xenon]

Don't know, but vigorous efforts towards trying might just have averted carnage.

Oh like in Chechnya?

 

[Ax^]

Some people did try to tell you...

from the guy who would have a personal ICBM aimed at they

and would be outside the house

shaking a fist at NATO

try harder you fucking goon

 

[nogojones]

Say something a bit more original.

That's a pretty brass post from the boards greatest one trick pony.

 

[xenon]

I've commented on what apparently motivates Putin in several posts over various threads. But in this lately, in this thread, I have speculated on whether it would have been possible to try and bypass him in favour of more realistic heads in the regime. We can't say, and it doesn't appear to have been tried.

As far as what does motivate Putin, we can also only speculate. John Gray, for one, seems to think he is sincere in his true-believer Orthodox Russian civilisation stuff. But even he doesn't know.

What a world, 30-odd years on from all the naive hopes that were peddled at the end of the Cold War. And all the while, daunting threats close in on us that were barely glimpsed back then.

The reasonable heads have been removed. You haven’t really understood what’s happened in Russia have you.