RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Interference was upped drastically in 2014, when they engineered the replacement of the economically corrupt with the politically inept (and also clearly corrupt.)
Effects - current and potential of the worlds sanctions on Russia
- Thread starter Smangus
- Start date
Yes, the Nuland coup, which no-one in the West ever talks about.
Humberto
Margin (martian) margin
The great friend of North Korea and assorted fascists.
RedRedRose
Well-Known Member
When possible, they are flying planes to Iran.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Don't see what that's got to do with anything previously said.
Humberto
Margin (martian) margin
Well you didn't really answer my question. At least not honestly.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
I still don't get what NK and fascists has got to do with it.
Humberto
Margin (martian) margin
Perhaps you know Ukraine didn't want to become a puppet of Putin.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Yes.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
If the internet is to be believed , Russia may have been interested last year . There have recently been two interviews on this issue .
The first with Davyd Arakhamia, parliamentary leader of Zelensky's ''Servant of the People'' party. He led the Ukrainian delegation at peace talks with the Russians in Belarus and Türkiye in 2022.
“[Russia] really hoped almost to the last moment that they would force us to sign such an agreement so that we would take neutrality. It was the most important thing for them. They were prepared to end the war if we agreed to, – as Finland once did, – neutrality, and committed that we would not join NATO. In fact, this was the key point.”
The second was with Arestovich , a former adviser to Zelensky and negotiating group member in 2022 :
“The Russian side still insisted on peace initiatives. And the Istanbul peace initiatives were very good, an intermediary document... Now 200-300 thousand would be alive, probably, and half of Ukraine would not be destroyed and mined... They agreed to political discussions on Crimea... We made concessions, but the amount of their concessions was greater. This will never happen again, it won’t, they will push more and more.”
I’m not suggesting that they fully answer your question however they do suggest that at one point something may have been on the table .
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
An EU court has removed war-related sanctions against prominent billionaires Petr Aven and Mikhail Fridman, in a surprise victory for the Russian oligarchs in their fight against western sanctions.
The European court ruled that the European council did not present enough evidence to establish that the billionaires were involved in efforts that “undermine or threaten the territorial integrity, sovereignty and independence of Ukraine.”
Fridman and Aven were placed on the EU sanctions list shortly after Russia invaded Ukraine.
The EU council announcing the sanctions in February 2022 called Aven “one of Vladimir Putin’s closest oligarchs” and stated that Fridman “has managed to cultivate strong ties to the administration of Vladimir Putin, and has been referred to as a top Russian financier and enabler of Putin’s inner circle”.
They are long-term partners who earned billions of dollars in Russia from oil, banking and retail.
Fridman and Aven, along with dozens of other Russian oligarchs, have challenged the sanctions in EU courts, describing them as “spurious and unfounded.”
Aven and Fridman remain on the UK sanctions list, where the two men used to reside before the war.
Aven, who has an estimated $5.5bn fortune, owns Ingliston House, near Virginia Water, on 8.5 acres of land in a gated estate next to Wentworth golf course.
Ukraine-born Fridman, who was listed as the UK’s 11th wealthiest person in the Sunday Times Rich List with an estimated £11bn fortune, owns Athlone House, a £65m mansion in Highgate, north London.
Both men have given only guarded criticism of Putin’s war in Ukraine, with Fridman saying in the early weeks of the conflict that it was a “tragedy” and that war “can never be the answer”.
The court’s decision on Wednesday was slammed by the Russian opposition who argued the two Russian oligarchs have not been vocal enough about Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine,
Leonid Volkov, a close ally of late Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny, wrote on X:
The European court ruled that the European council did not present enough evidence to establish that the billionaires were involved in efforts that “undermine or threaten the territorial integrity, sovereignty and independence of Ukraine.”
Fridman and Aven were placed on the EU sanctions list shortly after Russia invaded Ukraine.
The EU council announcing the sanctions in February 2022 called Aven “one of Vladimir Putin’s closest oligarchs” and stated that Fridman “has managed to cultivate strong ties to the administration of Vladimir Putin, and has been referred to as a top Russian financier and enabler of Putin’s inner circle”.
They are long-term partners who earned billions of dollars in Russia from oil, banking and retail.
Fridman and Aven, along with dozens of other Russian oligarchs, have challenged the sanctions in EU courts, describing them as “spurious and unfounded.”
Aven and Fridman remain on the UK sanctions list, where the two men used to reside before the war.
Aven, who has an estimated $5.5bn fortune, owns Ingliston House, near Virginia Water, on 8.5 acres of land in a gated estate next to Wentworth golf course.
Ukraine-born Fridman, who was listed as the UK’s 11th wealthiest person in the Sunday Times Rich List with an estimated £11bn fortune, owns Athlone House, a £65m mansion in Highgate, north London.
Both men have given only guarded criticism of Putin’s war in Ukraine, with Fridman saying in the early weeks of the conflict that it was a “tragedy” and that war “can never be the answer”.
The court’s decision on Wednesday was slammed by the Russian opposition who argued the two Russian oligarchs have not been vocal enough about Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine,
Leonid Volkov, a close ally of late Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny, wrote on X:
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
The Financial Times article on this matter illustrated very well that Volkov ,like everybody , is the father of hindsight . https://www.ft.com/content/5cc41a3d-1fa9-497b-8681-086b0c1e3b20
“Instead of criticising the war directly, Fridman and Aven convinced some prominent anti-war Russians to sign letters backing the lifting of EU sanctions against them. Leonid Volkov, chief of staff to the late opposition leader Alexei Navalny, later said he regretted signing the letter.”
editor
hiraethified
Fuck billionaires, Russian or otherwise.
I couldn't give a shit if their multi-millionaire yachts are impounded or their swindled cash frozen.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Ukraine is imposing its own sanctions by bombing Russian oil refineries, so far the capacity of Russia to refine oil is down 14% and it is trying to arrange a deal with Kazakhstan to import oil to carry on it's attacks on its neighbour.
Winning.
Winning.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I’d impound the assets of millionaires never mind billionaires .
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Neither could I, but what we think isn't relevant to what actually happens.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Russia should have been sanctioned back to the stone age by now if what we were told in the first, enthusiastic phase of the war was anything to go by. It hasn't happened.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
The links between some 'oppositionists' and the oligarchs would surprise many.
A Russian government where oligarchs don't have influence isn't possible.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Bet the Tsarists thought much the same as they celebrated Christmas in 1917
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Different times, and there was a revolutionary workers' movement. Not so today. Today's Russian opposition needs western sponsors and the oligarchs onside if it is to get anywhere.
Both the oppositionists and the oligarchs are flexible in their views, as we've seen already. Today 'liberalism', tomorrow nationalism depending on what happens in the outside world.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Which is why Ukraine has given up on the west and is standing alone at fucking Russia's economy up, and it is working.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
If you say so.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
I do, so all's good here. Hope you have a pleasant evening.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
You too.
'Men fight for their delusions harder than they fight for their lives,' (or words to that effect) said Arthur Koestler...
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Still afternoon here.
They certainly do in their delusions to back the actions of imperialistic war criminals.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
In any case, Ukraine hasn't given up on the west but is constantly lobbying western governments. See Cameron's apparently failed mission to the US the other day.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
worldwide. all of em.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
They are doing whatever they can to survive as it's existential, if they still have the nukes they gave up for Russia's broken promises they would be using them.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Yes, by not actually giving up on the west. You seem to be trying to turn a lavishly-funded western client regime that allowed itself to be pushed into a corner by western strategists into something heroic.
Those who matter in Russia also regard the situation as existential. And it doesn't matter in terms of the war whether they are right or not.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
No they do not you liar.
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