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Russia mobilises - consequences and reactions

How much training does each side give for conscripts/compulsory military service? I'm sure that I read or saw something about the UK training for Ukrainians which was 5-6 weeks.

I think the far right paramilitary groups like Azov, Kraken, Carpathian Sich, Georgian Legion, Misanthropic Division etc do their own training , as would the International Legion and Wagner
 
talking about what remains to teach the recently mobilized/Conscripted Russia army members

wagner is made up of former soldiers but the ukraine forces are currently fighting a war
 
How much training does each side give for conscripts/compulsory military service? I'm sure that I read or saw something about the UK training for Ukrainians which was 5-6 weeks.

I think the far right paramilitary groups like Azov, Kraken, Carpathian Sich, Georgian Legion, Misanthropic Division etc do their own training , as would the International Legion and Wagner


I reckon five or six weeks custom designed training from one of, if not the most experienced military on earth is preferable to being shown which end of a rusty AK is dangerous over a couple of bottles of vodka. But i ain’t no military man.
 
An awful lot of military training in modern Western armies is about getting fit. If you have to run across a battlefield in body armor lugging a load of equipment whilst dodging bullets and explosions it helps if you don't have to stop to catch your breath every couple of hundred yards. If all you get is an old jacket and an AK-47 (bullets optional) and your main combat role just getting under the Ukrainians feet they can probably skimp on a lot of the training.
 
An awful lot of military training in modern Western armies is about getting fit. If you have to run across a battlefield in body armor lugging a load of equipment whilst dodging bullets and explosions it helps if you don't have to stop to catch your breath every couple of hundred yards. If all you get is an old jacket and an AK-47 (bullets optional) and your main combat role just getting under the Ukrainians feet they can probably skimp on a lot of the training.
No, there's a lot more to it than that. If you want to do more than human wave attacks, you have to train people how to move and cover each other, battlefield tactics, strategies, etc. Most modern warfare needs combined arms tactics, which take a lot of learning to be able to co-ordinate different bits of the military, so that (eg) you know how to call in air support accurately, have your infantry protect your tanks properly and vice versa, flanking, envelopment (big in Russian military doctrine), etc., etc.

Then you need to train people not to just empty magazines in the general direction of the enemy the minute they see movement (enemy or friendly), not giving away their positions, and accepting casualties in favour of a greater good rather than simply running away when they think they're in danger.

Untrained troops are, pretty literally, cannon fodder. As Russia seems to be finding out in Bakhmut. Sure, they're causing lots of Ukrainian casualties, but I'm willing to bet the Russians are taking ten times as more casualties as the Ukrainians are.

AND they need to be physically fit.
 
Yeah even when I was in the cadets as a youth you covered shit like squad tactics (hand signals, moving in formation, responding to various threats, operating as fireteams etc), navigation, in-field weapon maintenance (fuck I could probably still strip an SA80), digging foxholes, night patrols, signals, proper use of camouflage, use of cover, how to sight weapons etc etc. There's a lot of shit in there that isn't easy or intuitive, not that I remember much of it mind, I was pretty useless. I think we did some joint ops stuff, but obviously that requires coordination between branches and is presumably more expensive/harder to organise.

If you want someone sat in a trench to shoot at anything they see, fine. But if you want them to actually do anything other than hold a position there's a bit more to it (and tbh even holding a position needs night patrols, effective sentries etc).
 
That said it's probably easy to underestimate RU's conscripts... many of them are going to be used to hard work in shit conditions, might have hunting experience etc.
 
That said it's probably easy to underestimate RU's conscripts... many of them are going to be used to hard work in shit conditions, might have hunting experience etc.

i'd say the one with hunting experience can avoid the draft better than the Urban city raised unemployed youths

rounding them up in numbers is more than likely easy
 
How much training does each side give for conscripts/compulsory military service? I'm sure that I read or saw something about the UK training for Ukrainians which was 5-6 weeks.

I think the far right paramilitary groups like Azov, Kraken, Carpathian Sich, Georgian Legion, Misanthropic Division etc do their own training , as would the International Legion and Wagner
Russia had designed its army to require less training than a western one. This was an inheritance of a doctrinal outlook (the over arching theory they used to build their forces) that went back to the 1930s. They relied on mass of armour and fighting vehicles to overwhelm the enemy but cut corners on the training of mounted infantry. (Paraphrasing a lot here), so the theory they were supposed to use in February was they had a core of "contract soldiers", people on 2 year or longer permanent contracts like our professional army. These would be the officers and the skilled technicians. They formed the peace time core of what is called a "Battalion Tactical Group", during a war there is a huge call up of reservists who come in and fill out the seats in the BMPs etc as infantry. In theory they had done their national service and just required some retraining.
What happened was Putin did not want to disturb the civies so did not call up reservists, but legally could not send out the conscripts as they were only allowed to operate in Russia (some got sent but there is good reason to believe they got to go home). So the BTGs were horribly infantry light and all those videos of tanks blowing up because there was no infantry to supress the Javelin crews.
Instead of a couple of weeks of mopping up a disastrously lead, poorly motivate army, well Ukraine happened. So by April they were pulling everything with a pulse to fill out the infantry roles. This included the trainers, who were pushed into the bloody battles of the summer offensive and the autumn counter offensives.
It was obviously turning into an utter shit show so Gerasimov or someone dug out the one commander who showed competence, Surovikin who gave Putin the details of how much of a shitshow it was around late September. At this point the mobilisation is dreamed up.
So this has not answered your question but it explains the phases of training Russia now seems to be aiming for.
Phase 1 was just warm bodies of any shape to fill trenches and BMPs. These are the mobiks we all see. 2 days ago Putin said he has called up 300 000 with 50% in current training, 25% in front line duties and 25% in rear duties (my guess is the endless labour jobs you need at war, moving ammo, cooking food, driving trucks, digging entrenchments and all that.
So Russia can fight with poorly trained soldiers, which it now has.
But even they expected people who had had decent training. But the trainers are dead or driving BMPs etc. So the theory is that the large group of soldiers sent to Belarus is being trained by the Belarussian army to be the next batch of trainers so the Russians can start expanding their capacity to absorb and properly train soldiers. Surovikin has convinced Putin this is going to be a long war.
So the September mobiks are in 2 groups, half at the front half in Russia "training" and they will be rotated in and out constantly moving between the front lines and increasingly effective training camps. And as more and more trainers are pushed out of Belarus they can expand the rate they draw in fresh mobiks and enhance the quality of the training they get.
2 weeks is enough to get someone to stand in a wet trench, cry for mum but shoot their gun when needed.
In the coming months Russia will steadily expand their ability to train more and better soldiers hopefully reconstituting back to being the kind of army that can give 6 months of reasonable training to get a reasonable infantry soldier able to deal with modern war, without having too many killed.

(This is heavily based on research from Michael Kofman)
 
Seems like the Ukrainian armed forces know it's a long way from over.

The head of Ukraine’s armed forces believes that Russia will have a renewed attempt at capturing the capital Kyiv, after its previous attack was repelled earlier this year.

In an interview with the Economist, Gen Valery Zaluzhny, said he was trying to prepare for Russian forces to have another go at taking the city, possibly in February or March.

In response to a question where he is asked what he makes of Russia’s mobilisation of 300,000 reservists and former soldiers, he said it had worked. “They may not be that well equipped, but they still present a problem for us. We estimate that they have a reserve of 1.2m-1.5m people … The Russians are preparing some 200,000 fresh troops. I have no doubt they will have another go at Kyiv.”

Zaluzhny said that generals had worked out how many tanks, artillery and soldiers they need to repel another concerted effort by Russian troops. He said that Russian commanders had pulled soldiers back beyond the range of the US-made HIMARS multiple rocket launcher systems, and that Ukraine hasn’t got anything longer range.

The 49-year-old made a comparison to the second world war, and said “somewhere beyond the Urals, they are preparing new resources”.

“According to my calculations it must have been three and a half or four years that they built [resources] up intensively: people, equipment, ammunition. I think they had three months’ worth of resources to achieve their goals. The fact that they have exhausted these resources and wasted their potential without achieving practically any result, shows that their position was chosen incorrectly. They now have to think again about how to get out of this situation.

“So most likely they are looking for ways to stop [fighting] and get a pause by any means: shelling civilians, leaving our wives and children to freeze to death. They need it for one simple purpose: they need time to gather resources and create new potential so they can continue to fulfil their goals.

“In my personal opinion, I am not an energy expert but it seems to me we are on the edge. We are balancing on a fine line. And if [the power grid] is destroyed … that is when soldiers’ wives and children start freezing. And such a scenario is possible. What kind of mood the fighters will be in, can you imagine? Without water, light and heat, can we talk about preparing reserves to keep fighting?”
 
As I said somewhere above with regard to those fleeing the draft, it doesn't matter if you oppose or support the war, if you're Russian you're under suspicion...

I’m against censorship in almost all cases, but if you set up shop in a country that’s already in a heightened state of readiness over a threat, you do have to play it cool - or be pulled off air. I wouldn’t hold Latvia accountable for anything particularly untoward here. In reality, negotiations and dialogue will take place, and an understanding of what’s acceptable will be formed, and any Russian language outlets can contribute to that process before accepting the results everyone’s worked out together, or accepting they’ll remain off air.
 
This seems to be, at least in part, a consequence of Russia's mobilisation.

The BBC’s Russian service is today carrying an interview with Ukrainian military intelligence chief Kirill Budanov in which he says that the war on the ground is at something of a stalemate. The BBC quotes him saying:

The situation has just stalled. The situation is not developing at all. We can’t completely defeat them on all fronts. They can’t either.
 
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