Russia mobilises - consequences and reactions

[frogwoman]

Seems to me that with the baltic states excepted much of the EU/NATO has been doing everything possible to avoid escalation tbh. if the botoxed up megalomaniac is gonna use nukes he's gonna use em

 

[frogwoman]

If he did (and theres no guarantee he will imo), there would be some sort of response, a nuke going off and nothing happening is 'escalation' in itself

 

[Rob Ray]

Jesus you don't even have to speak any Russian to know this guy's talking evil shite, he's channeling some proper crazed bastard there. One of those "how do they not see it" moments.

 

[RD2003]

Seems to me that with the baltic states excepted much of the EU/NATO has been doing everything possible to avoid escalation tbh. if the botoxed up megalomaniac is gonna use nukes he's gonna use em

There has been escalation all along. The western powers have enabled Ukraine in getting to the point where Putin does this.

Early on there could have been a united call for a freezing of the conflict and the withdrawal of Russian troops, in return for guarantees of Ukrainian neutrality and never to be a miltary threat to Russia, (no conceivable government in Moscow will accept anything less, and defeat in this war only guarantees a flare-up again in future decades), with severe penalties for Russia if it breaks any agreement.

Far from easy to achieve, but better than death and carnage.

 

[RD2003]

Jesus you don't even have to speak any Russian to know this guy's talking evil shite, he's channeling some proper crazed bastard there. One of those "how do they not see it" moments.

While some leading Ukrainian figures look like hipsters, this guy is clearly punk, of the nihilist variety.

 

[two sheds]

Early on there could have been a united call for a freezing of the conflict and the withdrawal of Russian troops, in return for guarantees of Ukrainian neutrality and never to be a miltary threat to Russia, (no conceivable government in Moscow will accept anything less, and defeat in this war only guarantees a flare-up again in future decades), with severe penalties for Russia if it breaks any agreement.

Far from easy to achieve, but better than death and carnage.

What should have been done if Putin simply rejected it? Which seems likely.

 

[RD2003]

What should have been done if Putin simply rejected it? Which seems likely.

Pressure should have been applied, and appeals launched over his head to the more approachable figures in the regime and military, who must surely exist. But if I know as little about this stuff as anybody else on here.

All I do know is that all this was predictable enough even before 2014. Some writers even hinted at it back in the early 1990s.

 

[spitfire]

Fucksakes.

 

[two sheds]

Pressure should have been applied, and appeals launched over his head to the mnore approachable figures in the regime, who must surely exist. But if I know as little about this stuff as anybody else on here.

There have been pressure and appeals and they didn't work. So what if the pressure and appeals didn't work?

 

[RD2003]

There have been pressure and appeals and they didn't work. So what if the pressure and appeals didn't work?

They were abandoned. That's the problem. Maybe they should have been pursued more vigorously, on the basis that anything is better than war, even, as I said above, in the event of an invasion.

Zelensky was elected on a platform which included continued negotiation. He was defeated by hardliners in his own regime

 

[two sheds]

They were abandoned. That's the problem. Maybe they should have been pursued more vigorously, on the basis that anything is better than war, even, as I said above, in the event of an invasion.

Zelensky was elected on a platform which included continued negotiation. He was defeated by hardliners in his own regime

Once Putin had invaded he wasn't going to come out without winning. So what if they'd been pursued more vigorously and hadn't worked?

 

[mojo pixy]

Pressure should have been applied, and appeals launched over his head to the more approachable figures in the regime and military, who must surely exist. But if I know as little about this stuff as anybody else on here.

All I do know is that all this was predictable enough even before 2014. Some writers even hinted at it back in the early 1990s.

There's a big difference between "not knowing fuck all" and "spouting utter fucking shite". I do at least know that.

 

[Cid]

Putin's line throughout this has been some form of subjugation of Ukraine. Toward the start it was more focused on regime change, with occupation at minimum of Donbas (though more probably at least land route to Crimea, probably Odesa and the rest of Black sea coast, but that didn't work out). Even now he wants to annex territories he doesn't currently occupy. Why not just take him at his word and see this as his attempt to remake a greater Russian polity? Why keep making excuses for him?

 

[Cid]

Bah, really should stick him back on ignore. RD I mean, not Putin. If only.

 

[RD2003]

Once Putin had invaded he wasn't going to come out without winning. So what if they'd been pursued more vigorously and hadn't worked?

Got to go out for an hour or so, but will reply when back.

 

[RD2003]

Putin's line throughout this has been some form of subjugation of Ukraine. Toward the start it was more focused on regime change, with occupation at minimum of Donbas (though more probably at least land route to Crimea, probably Odesa and the rest of Black sea coast, but that didn't work out). Even now he wants to annex territories he doesn't currently occupy. Why not just take him at his word and see this as his attempt to remake a greater Russian polity? Why keep making excuses for him?

Not making excuses for Putin, and never have. That's why I said efforts should have been made, for instance, to appeal over his head. Again and again. I don't know how possible this would have been, but neither do you or anybody else.

 

[Cid]

Not making excuses for Putin, and never have. That's why I said efforts should have been made, for instance, to appeal over his head. Again and again. I don't know how possible this would have been, but neither do you or anybody else.

You're absolutely right about me, probably not so much about a lot of the people directly involved.

 

[nogojones]

Early on there could have been a united call for a freezing of the conflict and the withdrawal of Russian troops, in return for guarantees of Ukrainian neutrality and never to be a miltary threat to Russia.

Do you genuinely think this was even a possibility?

 

[strung out]

Do you genuinely think this was even a possibility?

He does, and that's why he's not worth listening to. Put him on ignore.

 

[Cid]

Yeah, ignored here now. Probably unblock if we can keep this kind of discussion to some non-current threads.

 

[two sheds]

Not making excuses for Putin, and never have. That's why I said efforts should have been made, for instance, to appeal over his head. Again and again. I don't know how possible this would have been, but neither do you or anybody else.

I actually agree with a lot of the criticisms of NATO but the invasion changed things. What if the negotiations had failed (as they did)? Should the west have armed Ukraine or should it just have let Putin just keep the territory he'd invaded? I'm convinced RD2003 is going to answer us this time.

It's like the joke about asking an old bloke in the country how you'd get to the next village and he says "ah well I wouldn't start from here", and that's the only answer you ever get.

 

[Ax^]

I think we passed the blaming NATO stage when Putin's dropped the act and is now openly trying to bring this a battle between races Anglo-Saxon and Slavs ffs


we are in full blown Hitler type shite

 

[frogwoman]

'Putin or we burn the planet'

 

[kebabking]

Twitter tells me that the horde baying for blood at that rally in Nuremberg Moscow don't care about the price.

Fortunate. Coz the bill is on its way...

 

[frogwoman]

 

[weltweit]

Wonder what the turnout was in the elections?

 

[Spandex]

Wonder what the turnout was in the elections?

102%

 

[MickiQ]

102%

Really? that low?

 

[Cid]

'We are coming'*


*'We' includes but is not limited to: the working class, assorted protestors, muslims, tengrists, buddhists and a number of convicted criminals. 'We' is exclusive of: propagandists, the loyal wealthy. For now.

 

[sleaterkinney]

There has been escalation all along. The western powers have enabled Ukraine in getting to the point where Putin does this.

Early on there could have been a united call for a freezing of the conflict and the withdrawal of Russian troops, in return for guarantees of Ukrainian neutrality and never to be a miltary threat to Russia, (no conceivable government in Moscow will accept anything less, and defeat in this war only guarantees a flare-up again in future decades), with severe penalties for Russia if it breaks any agreement.

Far from easy to achieve, but better than death and carnage.

How early on, when they almost reached Kyiv?. Isn’t there some fringe meeting at the conference you need to go to?