Road safety: UK set to adopt vehicle speed limiters

[Calamity1971]

and it should be a compulsory retrofit on older vehicles.

I'm guessing the tech that needs fitting would be worth considerably more than my 03 ibiza.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I'm guessing the tech that needs fitting would be worth considerably more than my 03 ibiza.

You can always get the bus, or tube, or tram. By the looks of the view from your garden I guess there is a bus every 2 to 3 minutes, yeah?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Except I'm not "dissing motoring" at all, am I? I'm just against increased motorway speeds. If you want a grown up argument, stop posting up bullshit.

Bullshit as defined by a non driver?

 

[8ball]

I did.

Then you'll understand that a hydrogen fuel cell pollutes for its whole working life in a similar manner to an IC engine, except for the matter of the location of the pollution being different.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

But people DO drive door to door all the time, and by making driving more attractive with higher speeds, do you think that's going to increase or decrease city traffic?

And dreaming of currently unplanned park and rides suddenly popping up to lighten the load is hardly a basis for debate.

Increasing the maximum speed - particularly if paired with nationwide smart limits - isn't going to suddenly cause people to abandon trains or other transport options.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Do you have a driving licence editor ? If so, do you drive regularly?

And what relevance does that have to anything?

If you did and do you would be fully aware than on free-flowing motorways 80mph is the default speed anyway, so making 80 the actual limit, with effective enforcement on it would save lives, which is what this whole thing is supposedly about in the first place.

 

[8ball]

The quote his whole fucking name next time.

I think it was obvious to most people reading the thread, because he had already made the exact kinds of points that Sass was referring to (and then quoted).

 

[Sasaferrato]

But people DO drive door to door all the time, and by making driving more attractive with higher speeds, do you think that's going to increase or decrease city traffic?

And dreaming of currently unplanned park and rides suddenly popping up to lighten the load is hardly a basis for debate.

Park and rides do help. I drive to the one on the outskirts of Edinburgh, and take buses in the city. I don't think that increasing the levels of pollution in the city is a proper thing to do. As I breathe what passes for air, I can't help but pity the poor buggers that have to live there.

 

[8ball]

So arrest them. There's already legislation in place that gives police powers to stop the Max Power brigade doing their late night "cruises".

What, if they're not breaking any laws?

 

[8ball]

If you did and do you would be fully aware than on free-flowing motorways 80mph is the default speed anyway, so making 80 the actual limit, with effective enforcement on it would save lives, which is what this whole thing is supposedly about in the first place.

Hmmm... this sounds like motoring lobby talk, and I'm pretty sure we've discussed this on here before without the results being clearly in favour of this argument.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Then you'll understand that a hydrogen fuel cell pollutes for its whole working life in a similar manner to an IC engine, except for the matter of the location of the pollution being different.

It depends on how you generate your hydrogen. We have a number of sea lochs in Scotland that between them could generate enough hydrogen for the country.

Loch Linnhe/Loch Eil for example, has a surface area in tens of square miles, and a tide range of ten feet. When you watch the outflow through Corran, you cannot help but be impressed.

 

[editor]

Park and rides do help. I drive to the one on the outskirts of Edinburgh, and take buses in the city. I don't think that increasing the levels of pollution in the city is a proper thing to do. As I breathe what passes for air, I can't help but pity the poor buggers that have to live there.

Yes of course they do help. But there aren't that many of them and very few are likely to appear in the short term future.

 

[8ball]

It depends on how you generate your hydrogen. We have a number of sea lochs in Scotland that between them could generate enough hydrogen for the country.

Loch Linnhe/Loch Eil for example, has a surface area in tens of square miles, and a tide range of ten feet. When you watch the outflow through Corran, you cannot help but be impressed.

Please show your workings - how do you propose to rig up these lochs to generate all the hydrogen, and how specifically is your generation system going to work.

Not that I'm saying it's a bad idea.

 

[editor]

Bullshit as defined by a non driver?

OK, so you really have no intelligent comment to make.

 

[8ball]

Yes of course they do help. But there aren't that many of them and very few are likely to appear in the short term future.

It's like that bloody Brexit bollocks - we've delayed right up til the cliff edge and there's barely time to sort things out to avoid a right mess.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

What, if they're not breaking any laws?

Car cruising injunction | City Of Wolverhampton Council

Sorry, not legislation, a high court injunction.

 

[editor]

Increasing the maximum speed - particularly if paired with nationwide smart limits - isn't going to suddenly cause people to abandon trains or other transport options.

Good job I never said that then.

 

[Chilli.s]

I'm happy to have this in all cars asap. No problem with upping the speed on motorways too.

 

[editor]

This article from a pro-car website lays out the risks quite clearly:

The Institute of Advanced Motoring claims that pushing the limit up by 10mph would see average traffic speeds increase, meaning that accidents would be significantly more severe and thereby would lead to more people killed or seriously injured.

Between 1995 and 2005, the study estimates that 12,545 deaths and 36,583 injuries in the US could be directly attributed to speed limit increases, while the number of deaths on rural roads jumped by 9.1 per cent when speed limits were raised.

In spite of any benefits to the economy, raising the speed limit would come with a fairly significant upfront cost as well. For a start, the entire motorway network would need repainted and to have its road signs changed, while infrastructure improvements would be necessary to facilitate faster speeds.

The bill could easily run into billions of pounds, and would also mean that major routes would need to be heavily disrupted to accommodate roadworks. Faster cars means that maintenance costs will increase too, particularly given Britain’s unique climate necessitating road repairs more often anyway.

Driving faster means that drivers will go through fuel quicker as well, with some estimates claiming that upping the limit to 80mph could increase fuel consumption by as much as 31 million litres, costing around £34 billion according to current average petrol prices.

Should the UK speed limit be raised to 80mph? - Car Keys

 

[Calamity1971]

You can always get the bus, or tube, or tram. By the looks of the view from your garden I guess there is a bus every 2 to 3 minutes, yeah?

I'm more likely to flag down a combine.

 

[editor]

I'm happy to have this in all cars asap. No problem with upping the speed on motorways too.

So you're OK with the increased pollution, increased car use and increased likelihood of accidents that comes with this proposal?

 

[editor]

And some science

For years, the general message from governments has been that, for safety reasons, a reduction in speed is good because it reduces casualties. But this has been difficult to get across. Messages such as “at 35mph you are twice as likely to kill someone as at 30mph” may be hard to appreciate if you assume that energy increases linearly with speed – in fact, it rises with the square of the velocity.

The transfer of that energy to the human body is the problem. The evidence on the relationship between speed and casualties is unambiguous whichever way it is examined. For example, raising the 55mph (89kph) speed limit to 65mph (105kph) in the US was estimated to have increased fatalities by 15 per cent (American Journal of Public Health, vol 79, p 1392). So what criteria should we use to define a limit? Two present themselves: functionality and survivability.

Survivability refers to the body’s capacity to tolerate the energy transfer in accidents. Evidence shows that on access roads, where crashes involving pedestrians are likely, a 20mph (30kph) limit is appropriate. On distribution roads, where side impacts are likely – when a car might ram into the side of another that is pulling out of a side road, for instance – the limit should be 30mph (50kph). In situations without pedestrians and where side impacts and head-on collisions are improbable – motorways and freeways – the limit should be 60 to 70mph (100 to 110kph).

Cars have evolved to go faster – but humans haven't

 

[Sasaferrato]

Please show your workings - how do you propose to rig up these lochs to generate all the hydrogen, and how specifically is your generation system going to work.

Not that I'm saying it's a bad idea.

If you dig, you will find it on the boards, I did the working out, and cannot be arsed to do it again.

Have a look at the map for Loch Etive, Loch Linnhe, Loch Leven, Loch Duich, Loch Broom, Loch Gleann Dubh, Loch Hope et al. All of those lochs have a decent tide range, and a sea outflow narrow enough for a dam. Huge infrastructure cost, but once in place, the energy is not only reliable, but free.

 

[8ball]

Car cruising injunction | City Of Wolverhampton Council

Sorry, not legislation, a high court injunction.

Still think removing limits makes it a lot easier for racers. Especially for time trials or in v small numbers. You need to put significant resource in to even determine whether they’re together.

Could be a recipe for some nasty wipeouts.

 

[Chilli.s]

So you're OK with the increased pollution, increased car use and increased likelihood of accidents that comes with this proposal?

If that were the case, then no, I'd have to have a rethink. But auto 20mph zones, yeah defo.

 

[editor]

If you dig, you will find it on the boards, I did the working out, and cannot be arsed to do it again.

Have a look at the map for Loch Etive, Loch Linnhe, Loch Leven, Loch Duich, Loch Broom, Loch Gleann Dubh, Loch Hope et al. All of those lochs have a decent tide range, and a sea outflow narrow enough for a dam. Huge infrastructure cost, but once in place, the energy is not only reliable, but free.

And the cost and environmental impact of all this?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Good job I never said that then.

So what are you on about with all this "making driving more attractive" then?

 

[8ball]

If you dig, you will find it on the boards, I did the working out, and cannot be arsed to do it again.

Have a look at the map for Loch Etive, Loch Linnhe, Loch Leven, Loch Duich, Loch Broom, Loch Gleann Dubh, Loch Hope et al. All of those lochs have a decent tide range, and a sea outflow narrow enough for a dam. Huge infrastructure cost, but once in place, the energy is not only reliable, but free.

And a huge pollution cost during build (concrete is a very polluting substance to build and maintain).

And the ecological implications- what were they?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

.

 

[souljacker]

I personally would much rather get the train than drive but it's not that straightforward. I need to be in Stroud tomorrow morning by 9am. This will mean me getting the 7.12 from Reading. I can get to Reading station in about half an hour by bus, but to make sure I'm there on time, I'd need to get the 6.30 bus. Then, I need to be home on Friday by 6.30, meaning I'd need to be on the 5pm train home. Add in the time it will take for me to get from Stroud station at the other end and you are looking at, in total, a 2.5 hour journey there and back, and I'd have to leave early, probably around 4.30, on Friday.

Or, I could just get in my car, drive to the office I need to be in 1.5 hours.

Stroud to Reading and back is £75.10, which would fill my car and leave a tenner for some snacks.

And this is for a journey that goes on the same line, the GWR. If I needed to get to Liverpool or Middlesbrough (two places I travel to reasonably often) then your looking at more like £200 return and a 4am start.