Petition to request parliament review LTNs

[Cat Fan]

I live on one of the new LTN side streets that has an LTN filter so I can see that my road has less vehicles driving through and some people will see that as a benefit but the terraced houses (not mine) on my road sell for around £1 million so it is a road inhabited by the more affluent car owning people however I am more concerned with the negative issues that causes as the boundary road that I have to use is not so lucky as they have more traffic and pollution to deal with and the housing on that road is in general 3 or 4 or more stories high with many people who clearly have no motor vehicle and those are ironically the people that these LTNs are supposedly being created for - hence why I agree with the aim of the petition that these LTNs need to be reviewed

I think that this is a valid position to have.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Is this all based on the premise that the main road you live next to has become busier/more congested as a result of an LTN being implemented?

Good question. I moved there after all this has happened so can’t judge either way. Feel free to tell me I’m chatting shit but this did happen in Leyton where I was previously residing and yes there was a noticeable difference there.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Pretend they're something different, call them "Ian Zones", job done.

High-way to the Ian Zone

Du-nuh nuh duh-duh du-nuh nuh nuh

Gonna Ride in to the Ian Zooooonee

 

[ianarmstrong]

ianarmstrong returning to the neighbourhood of Juniper Drive, I trust you have seen the debates on next door regarding the Wandsworth Bridge Road area. There are simply too many cars on the road. People don't seem to realise they are the problem. If there were less cars around, people would be able to get around much quicker. Driving around Wandsworth for work (the car is essential), I think I must average 5 mph.

/me shakes head disaprovingly

It’s a list of those constituencies with most signatures so I see no value in listing it alphabetically - you can click on the petition link and there is a link to a map of the U.K. which is also clickable and searchable so you can click or search for your constituency to find out how many have signed it where you live

 

[maomao]

I do benefit from less private car journeys if that’s true but not where all the traffic are sitting on Romford Road which I live next to. Also as a non private car owner taxi journeys now take longer and ergo the price goes up so I’m not benefiting there either as a non private car owner.

Are the cars sitting on the Romford Road there because of LTNs though? I live so far up the Romford Road that we call it London Road and it's pretty fucking terrible up here despite the lack of LTNs in Havering.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Are the cars sitting on the Romford Road there because of LTNs though? I live so far up the Romford Road that we call it London Road and it's pretty fucking terrible up here despite the lack of LTNs in Havering.

I shouldn’t have mentioned Romford Road. I used that as a point that I live close to it. It was horrendous on Leyton High Road through to Hoe Street though. Maybe it’s changed. If it leads to people selling cars then it’s a good thing.

 

[maomao]

I shouldn’t have mentioned Romford Road. I used that as a point that I live close to it. It was horrendous on Leyton High Road through to Hoe Street though. Maybe it’s changed. If it leads to people selling cars then it’s a good thing.

Or even just using the cars they have less.

 

[ianarmstrong]

you what?

So actually you want something like what's already been implemented, just that instead of trying to enforce the no entry locations with cameras and fines, we just don't enforce them, because it's fine, everyone obeys them anyway?

I think my suggestion is maybe too nuanced for you so I’ll try and simply it - don’t block all through routes - make some adjustments to improve safety - dissuade drivers who are not local from driving through by making some through routes longer or less attractive to staying on the main roads and work with satnav companies/apps to figure out changes that will prevent apps from suggesting a through route as an option

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Or even just using the cars they have less.

It can be crazy on weekends. It doesn’t affect me much as I can do most of my journeys by rail so I only notice it at the times where a cab is more convenient.

 

[ianarmstrong]

10/10 for persistence ianarmstrong. It's far more common for someone to post something like that here and then vanish after a few not so friendly replies, so good effort staying and defending it!

I’m not going away - if you post a reply that requires a response you will get one from me

 

[Pickman's model]

Anti LTN groups also have suffered from the old nazi bar syndrome:

First you let one nazi drink at your bar. Then they bring a friend along, and then more.
And then because people don't want to drink with nazis they stop coming and before you know it you're running a nazi bar.

The conspiraloons chase out the sane objectors with their unrelenting nonsense until it's just them left, because who wants to talk to people who keep shouting at you about the great reset wef nonsense and call you an illumanti mind control agent if you don't agree with them and prefer to stick to the reality that LTNs are not some dystopian move to end freedom of travel and are actually just an attempt at traffic management which you disagree with.

the trick is to whack the first nazi before the situation goes beyond being an irritant

 

[hash tag]

I think my suggestion is maybe too nuanced for you so I’ll try and simply it - don’t block all through routes - make some adjustments to improve safety - dissuade drivers who are not local from driving through by making some through routes longer or less attractive to staying on the main roads and work with satnav companies/apps to figure out changes that will prevent apps from suggesting a through route as an option

That will work well. As it is, sat navs sends many drivers to place they should not or cannot go, thinking particularly of lorry drivers, but not exclusively.

 

[Pickman's model]

I’m not going away - if you post a reply that requires a response you will get one from me

i hear editor is thinking of introducing an lpn to this thread

 

[ianarmstrong]

I think that this is a valid position to have.

Thank you - the voice of common sense has arrived - where have you been?

 

[ianarmstrong]

That will work well. As it is, sat navs sends many drivers to place they should not or cannot go, thinking particularly of lorry drivers, but not exclusively.

Yes although the DFT data claiming a major increase in satnav directed traffic down side streets was proven to be flawed and there was no negligible increase but I saw someone claim that if councils declared roads as access only then satnav apps would no longer direct drivers down them - anyone able to confirm that?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Actually all arguments considered I’m in favour of it. It’s just the private car owners that irk me but presumably this inconveniences them also.

 

[hash tag]

Yes although the DFT data claiming a major increase in satnav directed traffic down side streets was proven to be flawed and there was no negligible increase but I saw someone claim that if councils declared roads as access only then satnav apps would no longer direct drivers down them - anyone able to confirm that?

Just like you expect all road users to obey the law. It will never happen.

 

[liquidindian]

too nuanced

No.

 

[Pickman's model]

Thank you - the voice of common sense has arrived - where have you been?

waiting for you to let them get a word in edgeways

 

[Pickman's model]

I think my suggestion is maybe too nuanced for you so I’ll try and simply it - don’t block all through routes - make some adjustments to improve safety - dissuade drivers who are not local from driving through by making some through routes longer or less attractive to staying on the main roads and work with satnav companies/apps to figure out changes that will prevent apps from suggesting a through route as an option

here's a tip: nothing good ever came of engaging with teuchter on this or any other subject. stick him on ignore and you'll be the happier for it.

 

[teuchter]

Good question. I moved there after all this has happened so can’t judge either way. Feel free to tell me I’m chatting shit but this did happen in Leyton where I was previously residing and yes there was a noticeable difference there.

Despite what some people say, it's not inevitably true that LTNs increase traffic on boundary roads or nearby main roads.

It's also not possible to say that they never have some effect on boundary roads. It is true that increases in traffic are often seen, on boundary roads, after the implementation of LTN type schemes. However:

1. An increase immediately after implementation is normal. Also normal is for things to settle back to something like the previous level after a period of time. That period of time seems to range from a couple of months to a couple of years
2. It's pretty hard to untangle the effects of an LTN implementation from all the other things that might be having an effect at a certain time. Again, longer term observations are the more important
3. There's a tendency to notice congestion and pollution more, once you've started looking for it. It seems like a lot of people who never thought that much about air pollution, are now hyper vigilant.
4. The LTNs are part of a whole bunch of measures being pushed out around London aimed at reducing private vehicle use. Aside from any effects the LTNs are having, there is, hopefully, a general background decrease in air pollution and vehicle use.
5. Those of us who are generally in favour of these things have to be honest, I think, and acknowledge that yes, there will be some places where traffic levels increase on boundary roads. Pinch points get shifted around, so even if the overall level of traffic in an area goes down, there might be a few places where it goes up. However, nothing can ever be perfect and as long as these increases are not widespread and are not extreme, the overall benefits mean they should be accepted. Also, where these increases happen, action should be taken to mitigate them, but the mitigation should not be to abandon the whole scheme or compromise it so much that the benefits become really marginal.

For the record where I live isn't in an LTN and never will be, it's not a very major road but it's a sufficiently main road that I don't expect it would ever be closed off and it's one that could be subject to worries about displaced traffic if an LTN was implemented either side of it.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I’m not anti-LTN. Just anti car owners being protected from the fumes they create because they live in the right place.

 

[teuchter]

I think my suggestion is maybe too nuanced for you so I’ll try and simply it - don’t block all through routes - make some adjustments to improve safety - dissuade drivers who are not local from driving through by making some through routes longer or less attractive to staying on the main roads and work with satnav companies/apps to figure out changes that will prevent apps from suggesting a through route as an option

Your suggestion is not "nuanced" it's just a watered down version of what is currently being implemented. You're saying it's injust in principle and then saying actually lets do it a bit anyway.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

It's the 27 service every 15 mins up to 9pm and then every 30. Family saver is something like £11 and the parking is free.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

Do you live outside of Brighton?

The problem with park & ride is that it encourages people from outside the city to drive some distance to the P&R rather than taking public transport from the place closest to their home.

I live in Brighton & it’s not a park n ride as such. It’s not even sign posted to visitors as a park n ride. It’s one avenue into the city where you could park that I didn’t even know about, so how visitors are supposed to know about it is unknown.

Anyway. As you were.

 

[teuchter]

I use it to describe the LTNs imposed during the pandemic as they cover a much wider area than any set of road closures I’ve seen before - the 5 LTNs introduced by Lambeth are all pretty big and encompass 10 to 20 if not more roads hence the term wide area

So, encompassing 10 or more roads is the threshold.

Why don't you want to review LTNs of similar size, implemented further in the past?

Why do you want to include LTNs of smaller than this size in the review just because they have been implemented recently?

I don't understand why you want to review based on date of implementation, rather than size, seeing as the size is what you say you have the issue with.

 

[hash tag]

Forget LTNs, I thought pay by mile would have been a thing by now. Certainly some people have looked at it and it may yet be the way forward, certainly in major towns and city's.

 

[Cat Fan]

Some drivers also ignore LTN filters and drive up on the kerb so they don't get caught by the camera. I've witnessed it many times.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

I live in Brighton & it’s not a park n ride as such. It’s not even sign posted to visitors as a park n ride. It’s one avenue into the city where you could park that I didn’t even know about, so how visitors are supposed to know about it is unknown.

Anyway. As you were.

Well as a Brighton resident for the past 30 years, and as someone born in a Brighton hospital a lot longer ago, I found the new fangled internet let me know about bus service density, bus use rates in the city, council promoted park and ride schemes, and Brighton and Hove bus services times and prices. Rocket science it ain't.

Cheers and have fun - Louis MacNeice

 

[ianarmstrong]

Just like you expect all road users to obey the law. It will never happen.

Oh yea of little faulty - a lot of drivers blindly follow their satnav apps as I experienced for myself when standing at LTN filters back in 2021 trying to advise people they were about to be fined £130 so this would stop some side road traffic

 

[ianarmstrong]

No.

I’ll try to be less nuanced for you