Petition to request parliament review LTNs

[domestos]

A cheap inflexible way a local authority creates an illusion of being green. Sod the residents, emergency services and those who live on main roads. On here anyone who disagrees at all, even if it's a small alteration to a complete physical block will not be popular and will be a messiah-complex magnet.

 

[teuchter]

A cheap inflexible way a local authority creates an illusion of being green. Sod the residents, emergency services and those who live on main roads. On here anyone who disagrees at all, even if it's a small alteration to a complete physical block will not be popular and will be a messiah-complex magnet.

Do you want to re-open the blocks on Strathleven and Baytree roads in Brixton?

 

[liquidindian]

Sod the residents

The people who are in favour are, of course, not residents, we simply beam back aboard our orbiting ships every evening.

 

[ianarmstrong]

A mate of mine just happened to be visiting family in Oxford the other week, when there was a big demo about LTN's. He reckoned 2 or 3 thousand people. Mainly outside agitators, of course. What freaked him out was the sheer range of banners. Anti-LTN's, anti-lockdown, anti-vaccine, COVID-denial, climate change denial. All the conspiraloons gathered together in one place. Where do you stand on all that lot ianarmstrong ? And if you don't agree with it all aren't you slightly worried that your most enthusiastic supporters are of that ilk?

This is about an LTN petition review request - I’m not a covid denier or or anti-vaxer - your point is

Do you think there's any connection between LTNs and the pandemic? You keep mentioning them together.

Only that the new wave of significantly wider area LTNs began being imposed as a result of the emergency powers granted to local councils at the start of the covid pandemic in the U.K. - I’m just using that phrase to differentiate them from any road closures implemented before that time as these new ones cover a much wider area than any that went before or at least any that I’ve seen in London at least

 

[ianarmstrong]

So, you want to keep Strathleven and Baytree roads closed, with the traffic that would otherwise run along them, displaced onto Brixton Hill and Acre Lane.

Why do you want to create more pollution and congestion on Brixton Hill and Acre Lane than could otherwise be the case?

Why are you opposed to reducing pollution on Brixton Hill and Acre Lane, where people live, and where there is a school and You’ve seen what I’ve said but you don’t seem to understand so no amount of explaining is going to help it would seem

So, you want to keep Strathleven and Baytree roads closed, with the traffic that would otherwise run along them, displaced onto Brixton Hill and Acre Lane.

Why do you want to create more pollution and congestion on Brixton Hill and Acre Lane than could otherwise be the case?

Why are you opposed to reducing pollution on Brixton Hill and Acre Lane, where people live, and where there is a school and college?

Twisting my words to fit your narrative now I see!

Strathleven was closed around 30 years ago so I have no reason reopen that and it would become a school street if it were open now and I have no issue with school streets. Baytree was closed at the request of the majority of the residents I believe so I have no reason to change that. The wide area LTNs are the changes that have caused significant issues and it’s those that I am interested in and it’s those that are the subject of this petition.

I explained what I would do to try and reduce traffic, congestion and pollution on the main roads and what that would involve and that does not equate to what you are saying.

 

[teuchter]

There is a map of london here where you can look at LTNs that were implemented pre and post Covid (tick or untick the boxes in the left hand bar).

I have cherry-picked a portion, centred on Mitcham. Top is LTNs implemented pre March 2020, bottom one post March 2020. According to that map, anyway.

 

[A380]

Amazing that LTNs are so controversial for some (see my excellent thread on 15 minute city conspiracies ) when they are basically about a usually dull subject of traffic control.

For years on my Hackney Street we had no resident parking so parking could be a trial, particularly as we are close to a train station - eventually after consultation - we got residential parking - and the street was happy with the traffic management intervention. Similarily, whilst speed cameras aren't universally popular, they have had an impact on speeding (I've accumulated about 12 points and maybe £500 in fines over 20+ years of driving ) and speed cameras do control traffic and have had an impact on safety.

I live next to a LTN , I used to use it as a short cut , I no longer do so, its no biggy.

This is the kind of hysterical response the new world order seeks from the Sheeple!!! Are you some kind of commie atheist?

 

[teuchter]

Twisting my words to fit your narrative now I see!

Strathleven was closed around 30 years ago so I have no reason reopen that and it would become a school street if it were open now and I have no issue with school streets. Baytree was closed at the request of the majority of the residents I believe so I have no reason to change that. The wide area LTNs are the changes that have caused significant issues and it’s those that I am interested in and it’s those that are the subject of this petition.

You are not addressing the issue of the extra pollution on Brixton Hill and Acre Lane, that your refusal to re-open these roads is causing. How long ago the blocks were put in, or whether residents requested something, has no relevance to the issue right now which is the excess pollution on Brixton Hill and Acre Lane, which we could apparently relieve by opening these roads. Why don't you care about the people living along Brixton Hill and Acre Lane? And the school on Brixton Hill? Do you consider the residents of Baytree Road and Strathleven Road as more deserving of lowered air pollution? Do you consider the pupils of Sudbourne Primary more deserving of lowered air pollution than the pupils of Trinity Academy? Why this descriminatory approach - I thought you were campaigning against injustice.

 

[ianarmstrong]

You are not addressing the issue of the extra pollution on Brixton Hill and Acre Lane, that your refusal to re-open these roads is causing. How long ago the blocks were put in, or whether residents requested something, has no relevance to the issue right now which is the excess pollution on Brixton Hill and Acre Lane, which we could apparently relieve by opening these roads. Why don't you care about the people living along Brixton Hill and Acre Lane? And the school on Brixton Hill? Do you consider the residents of Baytree Road and Strathleven Road as more deserving of lowered air pollution? Do you consider the pupils of Sudbourne Primary more deserving of lowered air pollution than the pupils of Trinity Academy? Why this descriminatory approach - I thought you were campaigning against injustice.

I have addressed the issues but not in the way you want me to - I would not have created these wide area LTNs and instead I would have looked to implement the following to help reduce the main road congestion and pollution - I’ve amended this list to make the intentions clearer and added a few more items

What do you think of these suggestions as an alternate to LTNs - they would in my opinion also help to reduce pollution from motor vehicles as well as reduce the number of vehicle journeys in general across London?

1. Improve safety on side streets: Add speed bumps that do actually slow vehicles down - Court Lane, Townley, New Pk Rd, Telford Avenue are good examples of that
2. Improve safety on side streets: Use planters to reduce the width of the roads with one direction have right of way over the other to slow down vehicles
3. Reduce through traffic on side streets: Make short cuts less desirable to staying on the main road by making certain roads one way (with speed calming measures that work) and redirecting traffic flow with use of selective no entry signs on some roads to make the through route longer - use a traffic flow simulation system to determine the best options
4. Reduce through traffic on side streets: Work with satnavs companies to persuade them not to direct traffic down residential roads except in emergencies or work out what road rerouting rerouting would result in this outcome
5. Access traffic should not be affected: do not treat residents as through traffic so do not block them from accessing their homes by blocking all through routes or force them to use a single access point
6. Emergency through routes: do not block all through routes as when emergencies or major road works occur on main roads the traffic has to have an alternate route to filter away from the area to avoid mass congestion in the wider area
7. Add school streets on side streets
8. Provide school buses or walking convoys to help children get to/from school for parents who are time constrained or need help with transport
9. Lobby to extend ULEZ to cover the whole of London but provide assistance and exemptions to people and businesses to help them switch to ULEZ compliant vehicles - the scrapage scheme should be open to all and there should be a trade-in scheme too set up in conjunction with car dealers to help people upgrade to compliant vehicles
10. Add EV charging points on every lamppost on every street - this is starting to happen on some roads in Lambeth
11. Provide support for people and business to switch to EVs and ULEZ compliant vehicles - trade-in or scrappage
12. Push for Hydrogen fuelled vehicles as an alternate to petrol/diesel/hybrid/EVs
13. Upgrade traffic lights to prioritise cyclists and make them intelligent enough to spot vehicles waiting too long on a red light when the flow through the green light is low
14. Install hire bikes near all shopping parades and selected residential streets
15. Install cargo bikes for hire in supermarket car parks and selected residential streets
16. Install hire passenger bikes and scooters outside all schools and selected residential streets to provide parent with an option to get their children to/from school
17. Replace bike hangers on residential streets with double decker versions thus doubling the capacity overnight
18. Force Deliveroo/UberEats/etc organisations to provide an emissions free/non motor vehicle option for local deliveries
19. Provide incentives to local businesses to use emissions free/non motor vehicle options for local deliveries
20. Convert all public transport busses to be emissions free - there are plans to achieve this by 2037 in London - needs to happen sooner
21. Improve public transport and make it cheaper - long term goal
22. Make all tube/train stations step free - long term goal as finances permit
23. Modify buses so they can carry more of the less able to walk such as those with buggies, wheelchairs or the elderly - long term goal as finances permit
24. Provide support to less affluent people to make use of alternate modes of transport
25. Plant more trees and shrubs near or at the side of busy roads to absorb co2 emissions
26. Force all petrol station companies to provide a drive carbon neutral scheme where they plant trees to offset the emissions generated by the fuel they sell

If the councils and government proactively worked on the above items I believe there would be fewer people driving motor vehicles, significantly less pollution being generated by motor vehicles and a reduction in the congestion on the main roads.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

This is about an LTN petition review request - I’m not a covid denier or or anti-vaxer - your point is

Anti-LTN's, anti-lockdown, anti-vaccine, COVID-denial, climate change denial. All the conspiraloons gathered together in one place. If you don't agree with it all aren't you slightly worried that your most enthusiastic supporters are of that ilk?

So, just to clarify, were you anti-lockdown and are you a climate change denier?

As for my wider point, are you not concerned that most of your most vocal support seems to come from such fringe fruitcake elements?

 

[Leafster]

This is about an LTN petition review request - I’m not a covid denier or or anti-vaxer - your point is

Only that the new wave of significantly wider area LTNs began being imposed as a result of the emergency powers granted to local councils at the start of the covid pandemic in the U.K. - I’m just using that phrase to differentiate them from any road closures implemented before that time as these new ones cover a much wider area than any that went before or at least any that I’ve seen in London at least

I know there was additional funding for local authorities to improve active travel during the pandemic but what were the emergency powers they were given specifically to roll out more LTNs?

 

[Artaxerxes]

I know there was additional funding for local authorities to improve active travel during the pandemic but what were the emergency powers they were given specifically to roll out more LTNs?

Essentially to bypass the 9 years of planning permission, lawsuits and consultation it takes to build or do anything in this fucking hellscape failed state of low ambition and NIMBY fucks and just do it

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Brighton is a nightmare to drive around isn't it ?

Not really, it’s just the Greens fuck everything up Not even got a park n ride ffs. What year we in?

 

[teuchter]

I have addressed the issues but not in the way you want me to -

No you haven't. You are persistently refusing to get into any discussion about the relationship between the amount of pollution on main/boundary roads and the permeability of adjacent residential areas. And this is despite you setting out your stall as being concerned about pollution on those main/boundary roads.

 

[sleaterkinney]

I have addressed the issues but not in the way you want me to - I would not have created these wide area LTNs and instead I would have looked to implement the following to help reduce the main road congestion and pollution - I’ve amended this list to make the intentions clearer and added a few more items

What do you think of these suggestions as an alternate to LTNs - they would in my opinion also help to reduce pollution from motor vehicles as well as reduce the number of vehicle journeys in general across London?

1. Improve safety on side streets: Add speed bumps that do actually slow vehicles down - Court Lane, Townley, New Pk Rd, Telford Avenue are good examples of that
2. Improve safety on side streets: Use planters to reduce the width of the roads with one direction have right of way over the other to slow down vehicles
3. Reduce through traffic on side streets: Make short cuts less desirable to staying on the main road by making certain roads one way (with speed calming measures that work) and redirecting traffic flow with use of selective no entry signs on some roads to make the through route longer - use a traffic flow simulation system to determine the best options
4. Reduce through traffic on side streets: Work with satnavs companies to persuade them not to direct traffic down residential roads except in emergencies or work out what road rerouting rerouting would result in this outcome
5. Access traffic should not be affected: do not treat residents as through traffic so do not block them from accessing their homes by blocking all through routes or force them to use a single access point
6. Emergency through routes: do not block all through routes as when emergencies or major road works occur on main roads the traffic has to have an alternate route to filter away from the area to avoid mass congestion in the wider area
7. Add school streets on side streets
8. Provide school buses or walking convoys to help children get to/from school for parents who are time constrained or need help with transport
9. Lobby to extend ULEZ to cover the whole of London but provide assistance and exemptions to people and businesses to help them switch to ULEZ compliant vehicles - the scrapage scheme should be open to all and there should be a trade-in scheme too set up in conjunction with car dealers to help people upgrade to compliant vehicles
10. Add EV charging points on every lamppost on every street - this is starting to happen on some roads in Lambeth
11. Provide support for people and business to switch to EVs and ULEZ compliant vehicles - trade-in or scrappage
12. Push for Hydrogen fuelled vehicles as an alternate to petrol/diesel/hybrid/EVs
13. Upgrade traffic lights to prioritise cyclists and make them intelligent enough to spot vehicles waiting too long on a red light when the flow through the green light is low
14. Install hire bikes near all shopping parades and selected residential streets
15. Install cargo bikes for hire in supermarket car parks and selected residential streets
16. Install hire passenger bikes and scooters outside all schools and selected residential streets to provide parent with an option to get their children to/from school
17. Replace bike hangers on residential streets with double decker versions thus doubling the capacity overnight
18. Force Deliveroo/UberEats/etc organisations to provide an emissions free/non motor vehicle option for local deliveries
19. Provide incentives to local businesses to use emissions free/non motor vehicle options for local deliveries
20. Convert all public transport busses to be emissions free - there are plans to achieve this by 2037 in London - needs to happen sooner
21. Improve public transport and make it cheaper - long term goal
22. Make all tube/train stations step free - long term goal as finances permit
23. Modify buses so they can carry more of the less able to walk such as those with buggies, wheelchairs or the elderly - long term goal as finances permit
24. Provide support to less affluent people to make use of alternate modes of transport
25. Plant more trees and shrubs near or at the side of busy roads to absorb co2 emissions
26. Force all petrol station companies to provide a drive carbon neutral scheme where they plant trees to offset the emissions generated by the fuel they sell

If the councils and government proactively worked on the above items I believe there would be fewer people driving motor vehicles, significantly less pollution being generated by motor vehicles and a reduction in the congestion on the main roads.

Lol, number 3 is modal filters.

 

[Leafster]

Essentially to bypass the 9 years of planning permission, lawsuits and consultation it takes to build or do anything in this fucking hellscape failed state of low ambition and NIMBY fucks and just do it

Ah, thanks! I'm not in London and all we got out of it was some extra railings to chain bikes up to and an improved cycle path.

 

[ianarmstrong]

I know there was additional funding for local authorities to improve active travel during the pandemic but what were the emergency powers they were given specifically to roll out more LTNs?

The local authorities were given new powers and money at the start of the covid pandemic to aid social distancing and active travel which resulted in them widening pavements and putting up barriers on the side of roads to provide more space for pedestrians where there was heavy footfall - some local authorities started imposing wide area LTNs - in Lambeth they had been planning for these wide area LTNs since at least 2017 and took the money and emergency powers and the opportunity to create 5 wide are LTNs

 

[Spymaster]

Signed.

 

[ianarmstrong]

So, just to clarify, were you anti-lockdown and are you a climate change denier?

As for my wider point, are you not concerned that most of your most vocal support seems to come from such fringe fruitcake elements?

No I’m not anti-lockdown or a climate change denier.

I speak for myself and no one else and I’m not here to defend anyone else other than my views and to support the petition

 

[Artaxerxes]

Ah, thanks! I'm not in London and all we got out of it was some extra railings to chain bikes up to and an improved cycle path.

It varied wildly, a few places shut entire roads and it was fab

 

[PR1Berske]

They’ve existed since like 1970 and indeed shaping traffic is a very basic concept and part of road design.

The increase in cars and the rise of cheap gps means more cars through what should be quiet streets so ltns are just a way to say can we fucking not.

 

[Artaxerxes]

But cyclists exist mate

 

[Sue]

This is the kind of hysterical response the new world order seeks from the Sheeple!!! Are you some kind of commie atheist?

Hackney.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Not really, it’s just the Greens fuck everything up Not even got a park n ride ffs. What year we in?

There is a park and ride scheme; free parking at Withdean Stadium. We also have one of the most extensive and the most used bus services outside of London.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[ianarmstrong]

Lol, number 3 is modal filters.

Not really as there is no need for road blocks half way down a road nor any need for ANPR cameras nor any need for additional CCTV watching the ANPR cameras and residents can access their home 24/7 via any number of access routes instead of via a single access point - not really the same at all

 

[A380]

Signed.

Were you Ivor Biggun or Gloria Stitz?

 

[Mr.Bishie]

There is a park and ride scheme; free parking at Withdean Stadium. We also have one of the most extensive and the most used bus services outside of London.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

Do buses run direct from the stadium then? First I knew about it!

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Do buses run direct from the stadium then? First I knew about it!

It's the 27 service every 15 mins up to 9pm and then every 30. Family saver is something like £11 and the parking is free.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[sleaterkinney]

Not really as there is no need for road blocks half way down a road nor any need for ANPR cameras nor any need for additional CCTV watching the ANPR cameras and residents can access their home 24/7 via any number of access routes instead of via a single access point - not really the same at all

“redirecting traffic flow with use of selective no entry signs on some roads to make the through route longer”

Well done, you’ve invented a modal filter.

 

[liquidindian]

Well done, you’ve invented a modal filter.

Pretend they're something different, call them "Ian Zones", job done.