Petition to request parliament review LTNs

[Agent Sparrow]

I've yet to see anybody online who opposes LTNs who doesn't subsequently turn out to be a lunatic, or an obsessive, or a conspiracy theorist, or some form of anti-everything nutjob, or otherwise linked to bizarre-o world silliness.

Tbf there are many, it’s just that their takes are often more nuanced and they don’t tend to be the ones who spearhead the campaigns.

 

[Artaxerxes]

More LTNs, more you fuckers.

 

[klang]

Can i just say that they introduced an LTN in the street where I used to live. We weren't affluent and neither were our neighbours. It was bliss.

But I don't drive so dunno if I'm qualified to comment....

 

[Artaxerxes]

Modal filters on all the roads. Fuck cars altogether.

Mandatory mileage pricing with exemptions for disability and discounts for licensed traders

 

[klang]

I remember in Sana'a people would just manage traffic themselves. No councils needed. People thought drivers were going to fast - they'd build speed bumps. Too many cars - block the road with a wall.

Wais interesting.

 

[liquidindian]

maybe some through routes could be blocked or altered as I suggested

You don't have to do this if you don't want to, Ian. No one's forcing you to be the anti-ltn guy.

 

[ianarmstrong]

You don't have to do this if you don't want to, Ian. No one's forcing you to be the anti-ltn guy.

Don’t worry about me

 

[teuchter]

Your logic is flawed as you assume that if I believe point A then I must believe point B and if I believe point C then I must believe point D and that is way too simplistic - peoples views are more nuanced than your logic allows for.

I am not doing anything complicated; I am simply taking your view, which is pretty clear as you've stated it many times:

Shunting all the traffic from the already low traffic side streets (where the more affluent people who own cars generally live) to the already high traffic main/boundary roads (where the less affluent people who do not own cars generally live/work/walk/school/catch public transport) is not an appropriate thing to do, right?

shunting all the traffic from the already low traffic side streets (where the more affluent people who own cars generally live) to the already high traffic main/boundary roads (where the less affluent people who do not own cars generally live/work/walk/school/catch public transport) is not an appropriate thing to do

I live on one of the new LTN side streets that has an LTN filter so I can see that my road has less vehicles driving through and some people will see that as a benefit but the terraced houses (not mine) on my road sell for around £1 million so it is a road inhabited by the more affluent car owning people however I am more concerned with the negative issues that causes as the boundary road that I have to use is not so lucky as they have more traffic and pollution to deal with

I'd rather we left the side streets alone and concentrated on how to reduce traffic on the main roads as moving traffic off the side streets does not help the congestion on the main roads it just makes it worse and those vehicles being blocked from using the side streets (which are not as many as DFT data claimed previously) are now driving longer routes using more fuel and generating more pollution

The congestion and pollution is much higher on the main/boundary roads than it ever was on the side streets so it makes no sense to move more traffic from the less congested and less polluted side streets to the already busier main/boundary roads.

The thing I would not do would be to block all through routes and force all traffic to drive around the LTN doing more miles and using up more fuel just to gift the more affluent people living inside the LTN traffic free streets

Your view is that traffic should not be moved from residential streets to main roads, because it creates extra pollution and congestion on the main roads.

So, I am asking whether you want to re-open Strathleven and Baytree Roads as through routes, because the blocks on these are currently doing exactly what you say is problematic. I'm going to post the diagram yet again. I know that's irritating - it's intentional.

 

[teuchter]

You ignored all the suggestions I made to help reduce traffic, congestion and pollution without any discussion - I'd bet there are many things in that list that you agree with!

I'm ignoring them because you are using them as a diversion from answering the question I'm asking. Yes I agree with many of those things. We should do those things instead of trying to get LTNs removed.

 

[ianarmstrong]

I am not doing anything complicated; I am simply taking your view, which is pretty clear as you've stated it many times:















Your view is that traffic should not be moved from residential streets to main roads, because it creates extra pollution and congestion on the main roads.

So, I am asking whether you want to re-open Strathleven and Baytree Roads as through routes, because the blocks on these are currently doing exactly what you say is problematic. I'm going to post the diagram yet again. I know that's irritating - it's intentional.

View attachment 364895

I’m talking about the wide area LTNs introduced since the covid pandemic began not any road closures that predate that - those were smaller and more localised - I’m not referring to those

 

[Artaxerxes]

Did we consult about whether people’s roads should be used for through traffic and a massive increase in car ownership?

 

[teuchter]

I’m talking about the wide area LTNs introduced since the covid pandemic began not any road closures that predate that - those were smaller and more localised - I’m not referring to those

I know what you're trying to talk about.

Do you want to re-open Strathleven and Baytree roads to through traffic - yes or no?

 

[BigTom]

Tbf there are many, it’s just that their takes are often more nuanced and they don’t tend to be the ones who spearhead the campaigns.

Anti LTN groups also have suffered from the old nazi bar syndrome:

First you let one nazi drink at your bar. Then they bring a friend along, and then more.
And then because people don't want to drink with nazis they stop coming and before you know it you're running a nazi bar.

The conspiraloons chase out the sane objectors with their unrelenting nonsense until it's just them left, because who wants to talk to people who keep shouting at you about the great reset wef nonsense and call you an illumanti mind control agent if you don't agree with them and prefer to stick to the reality that LTNs are not some dystopian move to end freedom of travel and are actually just an attempt at traffic management which you disagree with.

 

[Plumdaff]

To illustrate the above, someone just walked past me in central Cardiff wearing a hoodie saying "No to the New World Order / No to 15 minute cities and LTNs"

This is why people are massively suspicious about anti LTN campaigns.

 

[liquidindian]

And then because people don't want to drink with nazis they stop coming and before you know it you're running a nazi bar.

For this to work the pub has to be called The Bundle of Sticks before the first nazi walks in.

 

[marty21]

Lots of objections to the Hanover Brighton scheme, cos it’s shite!

Brighton is a nightmare to drive around isn't it ?

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

A mate of mine just happened to be visiting family in Oxford the other week, when there was a big demo about LTN's. He reckoned 2 or 3 thousand people. Mainly outside agitators, of course. What freaked him out was the sheer range of banners. Anti-LTN's, anti-lockdown, anti-vaccine, COVID-denial, climate change denial. All the conspiraloons gathered together in one place. Where do you stand on all that lot ianarmstrong ? And if you don't agree with it all aren't you slightly worried that your most enthusiastic supporters are of that ilk?

 

[ianarmstrong]

I'm ignoring them because you are using them as a diversion from answering the question I'm asking. Yes I agree with many of those things. We should do those things instead of trying to get LTNs removed.

I’m simply stating what I think should be done - no attempt at any diversionary tactic - I’ve answered your questions in my words not your words - I’m not a fan of these wide area LTNs as they cause too many issues and there are other ways to reduce traffic and congestion and pollution and in my opinion these LTN schemes do not address those issues they displace it to other roads and areas

I know what you're trying to talk about.

Do you want to re-open Strathleven and Baytree roads to through traffic - yes or no?

I did answer your question - no - this petition is about the wide area LTNs introduced since the covid pandemic began

 

[liquidindian]

I did answer your question - no - this petition is about the wide area LTNs introduced since the covid pandemic began

Call them by their proper name, Recency Bias LTNs.

 

[maomao]

I did answer your question - no - this petition is about the wide area LTNs introduced since the covid pandemic began

Do you think there's any connection between LTNs and the pandemic? You keep mentioning them together.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Do you think there's any connection between LTNs and the pandemic? You keep mentioning them together.

Bill Gates. Obvious.

 

[teuchter]

Do you want to re-open Strathleven and Baytree roads to through traffic - yes or no?

- no -

So, you want to keep Strathleven and Baytree roads closed, with the traffic that would otherwise run along them, displaced onto Brixton Hill and Acre Lane.

Why do you want to create more pollution and congestion on Brixton Hill and Acre Lane than could otherwise be the case?

Why are you opposed to reducing pollution on Brixton Hill and Acre Lane, where people live, and where there is a school and college?

 

[steveo87]

What's a LTN?

 

[danny la rouge]

What's a LTN?

Long thread newbie. It’s when something has been discussed for pages then someone turns up and asks what it means.

 

[teuchter]

What's a LTN?

Refer to here

 

[Artaxerxes]

Dr Google is an amazing invention even if it’s a monopoly run by cunts

 

[maomao]

What's a LTN?

Low traffic neighbourhood. A way of stopping rat runs and discouraging car use. Current target of loonies conspiracists who think it's a plot to stop us leaving our houses (without noticing that there are no restrictions on the almost half of Londoners like me who don't drive and want quieter streets.

 

[marty21]

Amazing that LTNs are so controversial for some (see my excellent thread on 15 minute city conspiracies ) when they are basically about a usually dull subject of traffic control.

For years on my Hackney Street we had no resident parking so parking could be a trial, particularly as we are close to a train station - eventually after consultation - we got residential parking - and the street was happy with the traffic management intervention. Similarily, whilst speed cameras aren't universally popular, they have had an impact on speeding (I've accumulated about 12 points and maybe £500 in fines over 20+ years of driving ) and speed cameras do control traffic and have had an impact on safety.

I live next to a LTN , I used to use it as a short cut , I no longer do so, its no biggy.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

London Transport Network

 

[Artaxerxes]

Amazing that LTNs are so controversial for some (see my excellent thread on 15 minute city conspiracies ) when they are basically about a usually dull subject of traffic control.

For years on my Hackney Street we had no resident parking so parking could be a trial, particularly as we are close to a train station - eventually after consultation - we got residential parking - and the street was happy with the traffic management intervention. Similarily, whilst speed cameras aren't universally popular, they have had an impact on speeding (I've accumulated about 12 points and maybe £500 in fines over 20+ years of driving ) and speed cameras do control traffic and have had an impact on safety.

I live next to a LTN , I used to use it as a short cut , I no longer do so, its no biggy.

They’ve existed since like 1970 and indeed shaping traffic is a very basic concept and part of road design.

The increase in cars and the rise of cheap gps means more cars through what should be quiet streets so ltns are just a way to say can we fucking not.