Petition to request parliament review LTNs

[Magnus McGinty]

Well as a Brighton resident for the past 30 years, and as someone born in a Brighton hospital a lot longer ago, I found the new fangled internet let me know about bus service density, bus use rates in the city, council promoted park and ride schemes, and Brighton and Hove bus services times and prices. Rocket science it ain't.

Cheers and have fun - Louis MacNeice

What about the old fangled internet though?

 

[Cat Fan]

Thank you - the voice of common sense has arrived - where have you been?

I am in the same situation as you. I live in a LTN on a road that is now very quiet, but I used to live on a boundary road and it was very busy. So I can see both sides of the argument. I feel sorry especially when schools and care homes are located on boundary roads, which is very common around where I live.

I think some LTNs work better than others. The LTN I live in (Streatham Hill) has caused a massive decrease in traffic inside the LTN and a massive increase in boundary road traffic, by the council's own data (search for Streatham Hill LTN monitoring report).

I don't sign up to all this conspiracy theory nonsense though.

 

[liquidindian]

I’ll try to be less nuanced for you

Given that your definition of nuanced seems to be "ineffective" or "watered down", not sure you can.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

What about the old fangled internet though?

Don’t wind him up ffs

 

[hash tag]

Similar to LTNs in as much as they try to reduce car use, the school streets schemes don't appear very effective. About the School Streets scheme - Wandsworth Borough Council

 

[Cat Fan]

Similar to LTNs in as much as they try to reduce car use, the school streets schemes don't appear very effective. About the School Streets scheme - Wandsworth Borough Council

Please give some actual numbers, you overestimate my willingness to wade through a stack of PDFs.

 

[Sue]

Please give some actual numbers, you overestimate my willingness to wade through a stack of PDFs.

PDFs you say..?

 

[ianarmstrong]

So, encompassing 10 or more roads is the threshold.

Why don't you want to review LTNs of similar size, implemented further in the past?

Why do you want to include LTNs of smaller than this size in the review just because they have been implemented recently?

I don't understand why you want to review based on date of implementation, rather than size, seeing as the size is what you say you have the issue with.

This is all my opinion but it’s up to parliament to decide which LTNs to include but it is clear to me that this petition has been created as a result of what I call the large area LTNs created during and since the pandemic so I’m describing them based on what I know of the Lambeth LTNs - there is no point in you trying to dissect my descriptions as it will be up to parliament to determine which LTNs they should review.

 

[ianarmstrong]

Given that your definition of nuanced seems to be "ineffective" or "watered down", not sure you can.

Have faith!

 

[liquidindian]

Have faith!

I'd rather go with the evidence, thanks though.

 

[ianarmstrong]

Your suggestion is not "nuanced" it's just a watered down version of what is currently being implemented. You're saying it's injust in principle and then saying actually lets do it a bit anyway.

As you’ve seen I’ve listed a whole host of suggestions to reduce traffic, congestion and pollution but I recognise there were some areas inside the LTNs that could be made safer for other road users and pedestrians so I would prefer to see improvements in those areas as opposed to the brute force of a draconian 24/7 wide area LTN which causes more issues than they solve

 

[teuchter]

the brute force of a draconian 24/7 wide area LTN which causes more issues than they solve

A nuanced view indeed.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Don’t wind him up ffs

What's all that about then?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Artaxerxes]

Well as a Brighton resident for the past 30 years, and as someone born in a Brighton hospital a lot longer ago, I found the new fangled internet let me know about bus service density, bus use rates in the city, council promoted park and ride schemes, and Brighton and Hove bus services times and prices. Rocket science it ain't.

Cheers and have fun - Louis MacNeice

My experience of most non-urban bus planners (and indeed just many UK bus planners in general) is that they require the online equivalent of finding the rosetta stone, decoding it, finding out all the information is wrong, out of date or just sends you to another site which returns you to the start and then by the time you do find the service you need to get where your going it will either:

a) operate something like only on a Monday, in June, for a week only
b) Get you where your going from around 7am then do a service an hour until 6 when all service stops to be replaced by a SAME NUMBER X bus that doesn't stop here. Neither runs on a Sunday at all because all people are presumed to be either at Church or presumably rogering the vicars wife because who needs to travel on a Sundy?

 

[sleaterkinney]

As you’ve seen I’ve listed a whole host of suggestions to reduce traffic, congestion and pollution but I recognise there were some areas inside the LTNs that could be made safer for other road users and pedestrians so I would prefer to see improvements in those areas as opposed to the brute force of a draconian 24/7 wide area LTN which causes more issues than they solve

Of course there needs to be other measures alongside LTNs. No one has said otherwise.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

What's all that about then?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

It’s my birthday, I’m a bit tipsey & seem to be winding you up! Not intended. Brighton doesn’t have a great park & ride!

 

[teuchter]

My experience of most non-urban bus planners (and indeed just many UK bus planners in general) is that they require the online equivalent of finding the rosetta stone, decoding it, finding out all the information is wrong, out of date or just sends you to another site which returns you to the start and then by the time you do find the service you need to get where your going it will either:

a) operate something like only on a Monday, in June, for a week only
b) Get you where your going from around 7am then do a service an hour until 6 when all service stops to be replaced by a SAME NUMBER X bus that doesn't stop here. Neither runs on a Sunday at all because all people are presumed to be either at Church or presumably rogering the vicars wife because who needs to travel on a Sundy?

Yes, this is my experience too, unfortunately.

Although, it seems things have got marginally better recently thanks to a couple of semi reliable apps.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

It’s my birthday, I’m a bit tipsey & seem to be winding you up! Not intended.

happy tipsy day

 

[BigTom]

Forget LTNs, I thought pay by mile would have been a thing by now. Certainly some people have looked at it and it may yet be the way forward, certainly in major towns and city's.

This'll come with EVs. At the moment you get an effective pay by mile through taxing petrol/diesel but they won't be able to do that with electricity.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I do like that they're petitioning parliament about local government policies though. A nice indicator of the sort of sad idiots involved.

 

[klang]

the trick is to whack the first nazi before the situation goes beyond being an irritant

shooting Nazis can become a serious addiction. especially when they are wounded and trying to crawl away.

 

[ianarmstrong]

ianarmstrong returning to the neighbourhood of Juniper Drive, I trust you have seen the debates on next door regarding the Wandsworth Bridge Road area. There are simply too many cars on the road. People don't seem to realise they are the problem. If there were less cars around, people would be able to get around much quicker. Driving around Wandsworth for work (the car is essential), I think I must average 5 mph.

Have you seen the suggestions I've made to try persuade and incentivise people and businesses to switch to active travel and other modes of transport which should reduce vehicle numbers?

Private car ownership in London is coming down but the number of delivery vehicles and PHVs is going up as more and more people use by online and have things delivered.

The changes around Wandsworth Bridge Rd will obviously concentrate more traffic on the main roads and make it seem worse than it is but it seems that the council in that area have plans to push traffic away from Wandsworth Bridge Rd no doubt to other roads in the area so I'm not sure they are really working on reducing traffic and more just displacing it.

https://wbrassociation.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/WBR-Transformation-Strategy.pdf

 

[ianarmstrong]

here's a tip: nothing good ever came of engaging with teuchter on this or any other subject. stick him on ignore and you'll be the happier for it.

Who is he/she/them and

So, just to clarify, were you anti-lockdown and are you a climate change denier?

As for my wider point, are you not concerned that most of your most vocal support seems to come from such fringe fruitcake elements?

I'm not anti lockdown as we needed to do that during covid to stop the virus spreading and I'm not a climate change denier.

The vast majority of people I have met and engaged with who are not supportive of these wide area LTNs are decent, honest people who see and experience the issues caused by these schemes and they see the unjustness of displacing traffic from the more affluent streets to the less affluent streets

 

[Pickman's model]

Who is he/she/them and

I'm not anti lockdown as we needed to do that during covid to stop the virus spreading and I'm not a climate change denier.

The vast majority of people I have met and engaged with who are not supportive of these wide area LTNs are decent, honest people who see and experience the issues caused by these schemes and they see the unjustness of displacing traffic from the more affluent streets to the less affluent streets

I don't believe any objective observer would describe teuchter as honest or decent

 

[bimble]

here's a tip: nothing good ever came of engaging with teuchter on this or any other subject. stick him on ignore and you'll be the happier for it.

You’re just jealous because he’s so much more skilful at it than you, you’re forever doomed to be the second most annoying poster on these boards.

 

[Pickman's model]

You’re just jealous because he’s so much more skilful at it than you, you’re forever doomed to be the second most annoying poster on these boards.

If I didn't know better I'd swear you were one of the cops who held me in the world's smallest kettle on the mall during gwb's first trip to London, who told me they knew I wanted to throw myself in front of the presidential motorcade, you have their acute but utterly inaccurate insight into aspects of me I didn't know existed.

 

[teuchter]

throw myself in front of the presidential motorcade,

The way I see things, and I'm sure most sensible posters would agree, each time you try and start an argument with me, this is what you are doing. This is just for your information; you do not need to respond.

 

[Pickman's model]

The way I see things, and I'm sure most sensible posters would agree, each time you try and start an argument with me, this is what you are doing. This is just for your information; you do not need to respond.

Yeh no surprise you'd see yourself in the role of leader of the free world in that scenario

 

[Manter]

Who is he/she/them and

I'm not anti lockdown as we needed to do that during covid to stop the virus spreading and I'm not a climate change denier.

The vast majority of people I have met and engaged with who are not supportive of these wide area LTNs are decent, honest people who see and experience the issues caused by these schemes and they see the unjustness of displacing traffic from the more affluent streets to the less affluent streets

They aren‘t wide areas- they are tiny. You mention being familiar with Lambeth (which isn‘t central london) so you must know most are less than 1km at their widest point.

 

[nino_savatte]

Shunting all the traffic from the already low traffic side streets (where the more affluent people who own cars generally live) to the already high traffic main/boundary roads (where the less affluent people who do not own cars generally live/work/walk/school/catch public transport) is not an appropriate thing to do, right?

Please try and make sense.