Petition to request parliament review LTNs

[8ball]

View attachment 365767

Ah yeah. Energy independence.
Going well, then.

 

[klang]

I can only speak for London, because that's where I am, and that's where pollution, reckless driving, and damage caused by too many cars affects me on a daily basis. The bottom line is - there are way too many cars here and it's not sustainable. And, above all, not necessary. Alternatives are avilable. If we don't sort it out now we are fucked.
Pro-car-industry-arguments don't cut it I'm afraid.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Alas I'm not in charge but thanks to the internet I can bitch about the inadequacies of our elected representatives and the lack of any talent or clue thereof

 

[8ball]

Alas I'm not in charge but thanks to the internet I can bitch about the inadequacies of our elected representatives and the lack of any talent or clue thereof

Can’t argue with you there.

 

[8ball]

I can only speak for London, because that's where I am, and that's where pollution, reckless driving, and damage caused by too many cars affects me on a daily basis. The bottom line is - there are way too many cars here and it's not sustainable. And, above all, not necessary. Alternatives are avilable. If we don't sort it out now we are fucked.
Pro-car-industry-arguments don't cut it I'm afraid.

Yes, London could do with fewer cars. O don’t think many people who spend hours stuck in them are spending most of their time enjoying their freedom and independence.

Maybe some alternatives could be polished up a bit.

 

[Artaxerxes]

The op seems happy and so does this lady, she's an extra ten minutes public transport from the tennis club but she loves her car so much she's spunking out cash to keep it.

 

[8ball]

The op seems happy and so does this lady, she's an extra ten minutes public transport from the tennis club but she loves her car so much she's spunking out cash to keep it.

Picking from the intersection of Londoners, arseholes and Mercedes drivers, is cheating.

 

[ianarmstrong]

You really need to do some reading around post-hoc rationalisation.

Ditto

 

[BigTom]

Lots of negatives but where are the positives of motoring industry and motor vehicle usage in your list?

We don't have to pay for the positives of car use as a society through tax, they are therefore not relevant to the question of why we should pay more tax on the electricity used by EVs than by washing machines, which is the question I was answering.

The government

What?

 

[maomao]

Audi A6 saloon I quite like the look of the Audi Q3 myself
If it is going to speak to me and start making megalomaniac demands that is just going to add to the appeal frankly

My first two examples weren't 'demands'. Your car exhaust is carcinogenic and cars generally are responsible for thousands of violent deaths and maimings in this country and many millions worldwide annually. You've decided that this isn't significant or your responsibility so whose problem is it?

 

[alex_]

I can’t tell if these people are regular disingenuous people whose obstruction strategy is to claim to support the objectives of schemes, and propose really implausible or impossible ways to implement them, or just really dumb

Who is “we” here? Because the future of the climate isn’t going to be influenced by anything anyone says on this thread.

I though editor ran the world bank and teuchter was head of the un ?

 

[A380]

I’m bored with Ian now.

It’s like the hamster all over again. Everyone says they will love it forever and clean it out three times a week. But four weeks in it’s ignored in favour of the XBox.

 

[sparkybird]

So ianarmstrong I have a few questions for you.

How do you think this thread has done in terms of increasing the number of signatures on the petition?
What do you think the public's general view on LTNs is after 22 pages?
Do you think it's time to just read the room, accept the fact that LTNs are here to stay?

 

[ianarmstrong]

We don't have to pay for the positives of car use as a society through tax, they are therefore not relevant to the question of why we should pay more tax on the electricity used by EVs than by washing machines, which is the question I was answering.


What?

The fuel duty charged when you fill up petrol/diesel vehicles is not currently being charged when "filling" up an EV so it makes sense to extend that scheme to EV charge points as that has to be easier than ANPR cameras on all roads to facilitate road charging as there are a lot of roads with no ANPR cameras especially out of suburban areas and much of the CCTV we have in suburban areas is not ANPR

 

[ianarmstrong]

So ianarmstrong I have a few questions for you.

How do you think this thread has done in terms of increasing the number of signatures on the petition?
What do you think the public's general view on LTNs is after 22 pages?
Do you think it's time to just read the room, accept the fact that LTNs are here to stay?

Hopefully some people will have signed the petition which was the aim of the post - I did not come here to have a big debate and I'm simply responding to what you guys are posting which is often littered with wrong assumptions, insults, unfriendly remarks, being told what I should think or do repeatedly and lots of comments about me rather than the petition or the subject in question

 

[klang]

Like it or not, by asking us yo sign the petition you are effectively an activist and you are representing something a lot of people are objecting to.



Don't advocate for something you are not prepared to debate.

 

[klang]

And we have been discussing the subject in question a lot more than getting personal with you as it's kind of more important.

 

[sparkybird]

Hopefully some people will have signed the petition which was the aim of the post - I did not come here to have a big debate and I'm simply responding to what you guys are posting which is often littered with wrong assumptions, insults, unfriendly remarks, being told what I should think or do repeatedly and lots of comments about me rather than the petition or the subject in question

Ok that's the first question answered. What about the other two?

 

[klang]

And btw - you don't have to respond to anything on here. Feel free to jog on and take your petition with you

 

[maomao]

Hopefully some people will have signed the petition which was the aim of the post - I did not come here to have a big debate and I'm simply responding to what you guys are posting which is often littered with wrong assumptions, insults, unfriendly remarks, being told what I should think or do repeatedly and lots of comments about me rather than the petition or the subject in question

Meanwhile all you've donee is post the same old unsourced unproven guff up over and over again. It's not a noticeboard, if you post up things that people disagree with they will tell you how they feel about it.

Anyway, your petition seems to be dying a death, so that's good news.

 

[Cid]

Meanwhile all you've donee is post the same old unsourced unproven guff up over and over again. It's not a noticeboard, if you post up things that people disagree with they will tell you how they feel about it.

Anyway, your petition seems to be dying a death, so that's good news.

Lot of votes for it in Warrington. Why Warrington? I think the White Rose (the Anti-vax 5g botherers, not the anti-nazi resistance) are active in that neck of the woods?

 

[MickiQ]

My first two examples weren't 'demands'. Your car exhaust is carcinogenic and cars generally are responsible for thousands of violent deaths and maimings in this country and many millions worldwide annually. You've decided that this isn't significant or your responsibility so whose problem is it?

Well it's yours if you want it. The idea that as the owner of one car I bear any responsibility for what happens worldwide with cars is just plain daft. As for the impact my car has on the environment well my attitude is that all human activity has an impact on the planet and it comes down to deciding what impact is acceptable and is not. As far as I am concerned the benefits of me operating it are worth the impact it has.
You're welcome to disagree with me if you want but at the end of the day it's me making the decision isn't it?

 

[A380]

The op seems happy and so does this lady, she's an extra ten minutes public transport from the tennis club but she loves her car so much she's spunking out cash to keep it.

I think this ^^^ points out the OP’s main point that we need to acknowledge. Public transport is only for poor people. And they, as everyone knows, are smelly and otherwise unpleasant for decent well off people to be around.

 

[klang]

ianarmstrong what motoring industry do you want me to see the positives in for a balanced debate? The one directly responsible for the ongoing wars on the middle east? The one supporting repressive regimes, relying on slave labour? The one causing oil spills in our oceans and responsible for de-forestation? The industry that can't wait for climate change to take full effect to free up arctic oil? The one causing death and misery to millions of people? The one millions of kids and teens world wide protesting against as they see it their duty to speak out for their future nobody else gives a fuck about? Is this the industry you are on about? But yeah, some people might find it convenient to use their cars to visit relatives...

 

[BigTom]

The fuel duty charged when you fill up petrol/diesel vehicles is not currently being charged when "filling" up an EV so it makes sense to extend that scheme to EV charge points as that has to be easier than ANPR cameras on all roads to facilitate road charging as there are a lot of roads with no ANPR cameras especially out of suburban areas and much of the CCTV we have in suburban areas is not ANPR

So we're back to where we started.

Anyone charging at home, especially those wealthy enough to live in a house with a drive or garage can (and will) avoid that tax with no risk of repercussions, unless you create a new "police" force with right of entry to homes to check if people have plugged into their metered ev charging socket or not.


To me, that is not better than having lots of ANPR cameras or using a black box gps system in each car, nor is it easier since you keep suggesting things that are not technically possible to make it work.

 

[ianarmstrong]

Like it or not, by asking us yo sign the petition you are effectively an activist and you are representing something a lot of people are objecting to.



Don't advocate for something you are not prepared to debate.

I've got no problem with debating this subject - been doing it for a few years - I will respond to sensible responses

 

[ianarmstrong]

And btw - you don't have to respond to anything on here. Feel free to jog on and take your petition with you

Another person telling what I should do - thank you

 

[ianarmstrong]

Meanwhile all you've donee is post the same old unsourced unproven guff up over and over again. It's not a noticeboard, if you post up things that people disagree with they will tell you how they feel about it.

Anyway, your petition seems to be dying a death, so that's good news.

Thank you for your concern

 

[ianarmstrong]

ianarmstrong what motoring industry do you want me to see the positives in for a balanced debate? The one directly responsible for the ongoing wars on the middle east? The one supporting repressive regimes, relying on slave labour? The one causing oil spills in our oceans and responsible for de-forestation? The industry that can't wait for climate change to take full effect to free up arctic oil? The one causing death and misery to millions of people? The one millions of kids and teens world wide protesting against as they see it their duty to speak out for their future nobody else gives a fuck about? Is this the industry you are on about? But yeah, some people might find it convenient to use their cars to visit relatives...

Bit of an over-reaction - the ills of the world are not all the fault of the motoring industry

 

[ianarmstrong]

So we're back to where we started.

Anyone charging at home, especially those wealthy enough to live in a house with a drive or garage can (and will) avoid that tax with no risk of repercussions, unless you create a new "police" force with right of entry to homes to check if people have plugged into their metered ev charging socket or not.


To me, that is not better than having lots of ANPR cameras or using a black box gps system in each car, nor is it easier since you keep suggesting things that are not technically possible to make it work.

Let's agree to disagree then as I can see I will not convince you but likewise you will not convince me